| 24 Apr 2024 |
 chaser | having a plan C sounds like a good level of assurance | 18:36:38 |
 kayabanerve | Hm. Matrix.org has stopped sending to monero.social. | 18:38:06 |
| kayabanerve | > Or rather, a prior modification to how the statement is formed, independent of the Bulletproof itself. | 18:38:20 |
| kayabanerve | > If the divisors fail, we fallback to incomplete addition with a window size of 2 (nothing novel, truly already understood, already widely used, 2x slower than divisors for proving DLogs) | 18:38:29 |
| kayabanerve | And no, that 2x wouldn't compound with other things such as the 25% number I'd gave. They share some inefficiencies. | 18:39:19 |
| kayabanerve | So yes, it's definitely meant to be robust. | 18:39:32 |
| kayabanerve | The concern would become performance, not theory, yet I've also worked to dramatically increase performance from my initial Monerokon estimate. | 18:40:19 |
| kayabanerve | Shall we call the meeting here, @Rucknium ? I'm unsure if there's active conversations and not just whatever will trickle. | 18:41:59 |
 Rucknium | Yes, meeting called | 18:50:13 |
| chaser | thank you everyone, I really appreciate all this work and coordination that we see here. | 18:51:52 |
 ArticMine | Thank you all | 18:54:37 |
 MrWonderland | In reply to @chaser:monero.social
thank you everyone, I really appreciate all this work and coordination that we see here. I second this! Really appreciate all of your guys work ❤️
It seems like there is a soft concensus for the path forward, so I'd vote for merging kayabanerve kayabanerve @kayabanerve:monero.social 's proposal as soon as possible.
I personally would rather fund a higher amount of research/audits that get discarded partially, than wait 6-24 month longer until we get Seraphis/Jamtis/FCMPs in some way or form.
Also Rucknium if the rough calculation for the cost of storing data on the current network comes down to about 20 piconeros per byte, we might want to add a safety factor of 2 (nodes that doesn't get counted, the electricity costs etc.)?
I wonder if and how we would scale that into the future? Like if amount of nodes grows by a factor of 10, the storage space cost halve and the xmr price does a 10x, wouldn't we need to adjust the price of a byte to 10 piconeros? (so the cost for storing data on the network stays the same) Which then would result in 5 times larger transaction costs (in fiat terms)?
But that probably results in a discussions for itself in the future.
p.s.: I don't know how the transaction fees get impacted by a 10x in transaction amount in the szenario described above. Might it actually come down to a pretty consistent pricing system if the network keeps scaling roughly equal in all directions? (i.e. 10/100/1000x in xmr price, nodes and transaction count) | 19:19:51 |
 chaser | @syntheticbird:monero.social I can confirm something is deeply screwed up here by Matrix. for me, some messages are missing from the monero.social server, even though they were posted with monero.social accounts (and to add to the confusion, they do show up when viewing the room with my matrix.org account). | 19:44:34 |
 SyntheticBird | Checking back this channel from monero.social is pure brain fuckery. some messages of kayaba(matrix.org) from 6 pm appears within the 5 pm meeting time | 19:28:38 |
| chaser | @syntheticbird:monero.social clicking on certain reply sources brought back missing messages, but ordering is still off. I should add that I'm using a client that hasn't been the most reliable (Fluffychat) so I hope it's just because of that. but the amount of complexity in the Matrix protocol is baffling. | 20:04:30 |
| SyntheticBird | nvm same issue from matrix.org. | 19:31:41 |
| SyntheticBird | weird indeed. I didn't sense these issues on other instances and discussions | 19:59:09 |
| SyntheticBird | monerologs.net is working fine however. | 20:00:27 |
| SyntheticBird | I discussed with someone that tried to rewrite an protocol similar to matrix, more modern and safer. "So simple to imagine, yet so far more complicated and difficult to do", he said | 20:09:12 |
| SyntheticBird | a protocol* | 20:09:22 |
 m-relay | <plowsof> matrix-related-lounge please
| 20:11:30 |
|  @monerobull:agoradesk.com left the room. | 21:20:31 |
| 25 Apr 2024 |
|  Gelois | BWNym changed their profile picture. | 05:09:47 |
| 24 Apr 2024 |
| Rucknium | MrWonderland: I can use x2 as the network cost baseline. I didn't read all the discussion about the August 2022 fee adjustments, soI don't know if having a Pigouvian fee was a design goal. It is probably just an interesting coincidence. FWIW, I don't think the "ideal" fee should be exactly based on the aggregate blockchain storage costs because there are lots of positive externalities to more people using the network. There are so many factors that I don't know how you would reasonably calculate an optimal fee like that. | 21:31:30 |
|  @stillhuntinglongs:monero.social removed their profile picture. | 23:23:02 |
| @stillhuntinglongs:monero.social changed their display name from stillhuntinglongs to educationalpurposesonly. | 23:23:23 |
| 25 Apr 2024 |
| @stillhuntinglongs:monero.social left the room. | 01:14:12 |
|  monerobull joined the room. | 06:57:01 |
|  @sergiomassa:sibnsk.net removed their profile picture. | 22:39:24 |
| @sergiomassa:sibnsk.net left the room. | 23:17:15 |
