|10 Jan 2020|
|23:43:04||Sheogorath||Well, when we only let people who understand encryption use encryption, our bank transaction would be a lot more dangerous than ever before…|
|23:44:23||MMJD-MxO||Redacted or Malformed Event|
|23:44:03||Sheogorath||There is nothing wrong to ask to enable encryption. It might not be the right choice, as you just pointed out, but as someone askes, it makes sense to bring this up to them and I guess things sound sane to everyone.|
|23:44:54||MMJD-MxO||Cute, but the room is on view.matrix.org , assuming the site is up.|
|23:45:12||Sheogorath||Not everyone checks that before asking such questions|
|23:45:34||FantasyCookie17||I just didn’t know this rooms history was public. I knew it was pointless for public rooms.|
|23:49:54||Sheogorath||Let's just try to contructive and forgiving instead of calling people out for being unaware of minor things :)|
Yeah, invite-only is a temporary measure, but that is not really a good distinction between what is a "public" and truly "private" room with a vetted group of individuals in a closed group or members-only group; et cetera. Basically it's like GPG/PGP for E2EE on the mailto: protocol ("e-mail") where TLS might be stripped in transit or the provider is datamining what it may read on it's servers because TLS is only for transit/transport.
And Crunk' is not wrong, just not tactful.
I shouldn't be the source of E2EE clarification when people see "UNencrypted" in their client's text-box input area and have a panic attack.
And anyway, this room is about moderation and good netizenship. But maybe I need to yet again lengthen the topic.
|11 Jan 2020|
|00:09:18||Sheogorath||I think it's a good thing when people have concerns when something is telling them that it's unencrypted. The main disadvantage of encryption in a public room is the trust part. There are many ways to solve this problem and encryption wouldn't hurt, when the trust problem would be solved. Of course it also wouldn't make things easier or be overly useful, but encrypting everything is always the better option compared to "opt-in encryption" even for public room. But as I said, only when the UX problem of trust is solved, which in case of Riot is definitely not the case. And in the perspective of E2EE breaking clients, crunk is wrong. Matrix is speced with E2EE in place. Not perfect for sure, but it's in the spec, that means not the message breaks the client, but the client is buggy as it doesn't implement the spec properly (with all problems the specs have, yes, I know they are not perfect, but if you ever worked with IRC RFCs you know that there is also a lot of knowledge between the lines and people basically got inspired by the original implementation and started to freestyle… See color support…)|
I meant that crunklord420 was not wrong about i.e. N.V. As far as being tactful, AIUI denizens of his area can be a bit blunt, but it's refreshing after all the P.C. BULLSHIT.
And to that, some in this ecosystem are either polite or not affronting, yet rate-limit (or whatever) your MXID off their Homeserver. Poor fractal had it happen to a couple MXIDs, and he's one of the most non-confrontational people on here to have tried to further this thing. Probably sone ass-clown like "q" got envious and decided to spread a campaign of misinformation against such people,including against @me. And I have to wonder if "/dev/ponies/" with the ponies.im MXID is not just another "q" sockpuppet.
But I'd rather someone tell me someone else made a claim that I was doing something unacceptable with a MXID, rather than suddenly finding it inaccessible, or deactivated as with hackerspaces.be . It's tough to run a public room when some Anti-Moderation ass-clown effects a campaign to get your Admin' MXID deactivated. And AFAIK New Vector can't really run all the rooms and is not 100% like Discord™, despite trying.
But probably thE worst I've seen was a Homeserver Dev'Op' commandeering a MXID, DESPITE the availability of other Homeserver level Mod' tools, this to hijack Federated rooms with which they had philosophical differences. The Admin' of that catalog of rooms is in here, but has thusfar declined to comment.
But what Hubzilla has, with Zot(6), e.g. Cloning & Nomadic Identity, seems like a good concept if public-private keypairs could keep malicious Homeseever Dev'Op's from hijacking MXIDs & rooms.
|01:11:03||ssorbom||But what does new Vector have to do with any of that? Other than that they refuse to ban bad sysadmins, from your description of the situation? I really am curious to know what new Vector itself has to do with any of this at all. As you yourself note, it is a Federated ecosystem. They don't control the behavior of anyone outside of their development team. And I know you're probably going to Flame me again, but I wish to State for the record that I am not " concern trolling”|
|01:27:23||ssorbom||What always concerns me about talk like this is that it's a contributing factor to developer burnout.|
"Concern Trolling"? Why, are you also 'cookie & 'darkstar, in relation to what they wrote just above?
I don't 'ply that term to someone who is otherwise seemingly a good netizen, but with whom I simply disagree. No, that is for someone whose behaviour seems crafted at undermining a room or online community; and although it might not have been the intention, setting E2EE in a public room would have been most unhelpful. The Guardian Project room had such happen, and they realized such, too late. It was "not great", to say the least, for the IRC bridging. But ya' know, "shiny new thing" syndrome, coupled with a tempting button to stomp.
|01:41:55||MMJD-MxO||And unaffiliated Dev' "churn" has been a thing, no thanks to @me. The broader community has had such churn¦turnover when people are immediately beset and beleagured in +matrix:matrix.org rooms, e.g. #matrix:matrix.org by ones like q:glowers.club and their "Army of @Me" crybully sockpuppet Concern Troll Army that dog-pile¦pile-on attacks new joiners, ESPECIALLY after NV E.U. office hours, or does the crybully complaint thing to NV White Knights. You've read this room's topic. Right ssorbom ?|
|01:44:54||MMJD-MxO||And deFederating with a shitty Homeserver is a possibility, but it's better to leave the roo' level as "soverign" or whatnot, with the room Admin's`¦Mod's deciding to ACL Ban Homeservers that refuse to moderate upon a shit-ton of room-raiding sockpuppets.|
|01:46:24||MMJD-MxO||But preventing a malicious public Homeserver Dev'Op' from hijacking a MXID IS in NV's perview and in all of our best interest, theirs included.|
|01:48:48||MMJD-MxO||Redacted or Malformed Event|
|01:49:28||MMJD-MxO||s/ q:glowers.club / @q:glowers.club /|
|01:53:39||MMJD-MxO invited sed(1).|
|01:54:06||ssorbom||Yes I have. It was in reference to the last time I brought up the subject in which you told me to go concern troll somewhere else. Maybe you were just especially angry that day, I don't know. And no, this is my only matrix.org account that I use publicly. I have a few others for testing purposes, but I don't use them in public rooms.|
|01:53:39||sed(1) joined the room.|
In reply to @MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgAnd unaffiliated Dev' "churn" has been a thing, no thanks to @me. The broader community has had such churn¦turnover when people are immediately beset and beleagured in +matrix:matrix.org rooms, e.g. #matrix:matrix.org by ones like @q:glowers.club and their "Army of @Me" crybully sockpuppet Concern Troll Army that dog-pile¦pile-on attacks new joiners, ***ESPECIALLY*** after NV E.U. office hours, or does the crybully complaint thing to NV White Knights. You've read this room's topic. Right ssorbom ?
Yeah I searched up in the scrollback. Othsrs seemed to be critical of how I moderate, yet endorse the Mod' style of some who might be described as P.C. S.J.W. N.P.C.s.
Go re-read the whole exchange OBJECTIVELY. Many have goid reason to be pissed with some "flippant", capricious and arbitrary decisions undertaken by NV, and the behaviour of some of their interns and even some employees, whether or not white-8
|03:03:53||MMJD-MxO||I mean, after the "Alias Wars" or whatever, when M2F trans-dresser, complete with a "Lady Penis", thekyriarchy¦KXRA¦et alia, was racing to gobble up any and all Aliases, with NO consequences, and some of us tried to grab a bunch that seemed applicable, WE suffered crybully abuse. In this very room, ssorbom , "the flippant one" seemed to not be inclined to forcibly remove Aliases. This was when the F-Droid people seemed to no longer scoff Matrix and seemed envious of the community *I* built, yet I released an Alias for their use. But afterwards primary¦main¦Canonical Aliases wete stripped from my rooms and the users redirected to an Alias Holding room, and punitively in my rooms I canNOT work with Aliases, not even to remove the insult Aliases that room-rading trolls like @q:glowers.club via sockpuppets added. You don't even know the half of this shit that ROYALLY PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF, DESPITE IT BEING CHRONICLED IN THE SCROLLBACK OF THIS VERY ROOM!!!|
In reply to @MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgI mean, after the "Alias Wars" or whatever, when M2F trans-dresser, complete with a "*Lady Penis*", thekyriarchy¦KXRA¦et alia, was racing to gobble up any and all Aliases, **with NO consequences**, and some of us tried to grab a bunch that seemed applicable, **WE** suffered crybully abuse. In this very room, ssorbom , "*the flippant one*" seemed to not be inclined to forcibly remove Aliases. This was when the F-Droid people seemed to no longer scoff Matrix and seemed envious of the community __\*I\*__ built, yet I released an Alias for their use. But afterwards primary¦main¦Canonical Aliases were stripped from my rooms and the users redirected to an Alias Holding room, and punitively in my rooms I can**NOT** work with Aliases, not even to remove the insult Aliases that room-rading trolls like @q:glowers.club via sockpuppets added. You don't even know the half of this shit that **ROYALLY PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF, DESPITE IT BEING CHRONICLED IN THE SCROLLBACK OF THIS VERY ROOM!!!**
|17 Jan 2020|
|20:20:19||RSS Bot [@MilkManzJourDaddy:chat.weho.st]||Redacted or Malformed Event|