!qMgVsNLWTAIzDtTsKR:matrix.org

persono.id/foundation

3 Members
Persono.id core and ecosystem development funding issues. Publish your idea, a startup or any related to persono.id activity and get funded!1 Servers

Load older messages


SenderMessageTime
30 Jul 2019
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

Let's say for case when I want to buy shoes from some website I never visited before

It's not quite easy to give a short simple answer as under the hood it is supposed to have a strong formalized protocol.
When you visit a shop, you will provide it only data it needs to complete your order.
But at the same time they may give you a proposal knowing your sizes and that those belong to a real person, without knowing personal sensitive info.
Implementation of the matter may differ. Crawlers , special "inboxes" etc.

17:33:42
@gate32:matrix.orggate32The latter can be more accurate, but imagine all electronic devices are somehow gone (sun activity, it will eventually happen)17:34:50
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

And if it's a web of trust and you have connections with people you trust, you can get your keys back anytime. You depend on that people. And they also partly depend on you. I think it's even better because it actually embraces trust between people, instead of trust to some algorithms.

You see, it is vice versa). There's some basic math and cryptography that make possible async encryption. The rest are just consequences, promo, sort of.
We consider a solution that would guarantee recoverability of keys, you know.

17:38:10
@gate32:matrix.orggate32> they may give you a proposal - so they don't know me, but can send me that proposal through some channel?17:38:16
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

The latter can be more accurate, but imagine all electronic devices are somehow gone (sun activity, it will eventually happen)

Ah, we then get back to stone age)

17:39:50
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

they may give you a proposal - so they don't know me, but can send me that proposal through some channel?

I'd say they sort of leave a message for you. Kinda anonymous postbox that only you have keys from.

17:42:21
@gate32:matrix.orggate32I still don't get that solution though, and why does it so needs my biometry, and how will it be collected to check my identity, and if somebody collected it, and this is the only needed info to make some transactions (only myself, you say), then what prevents that person to pretend being me?17:44:12
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.idOr maybe you personal AI agent scans markets and collects personal proposals that will fit your demands and params.17:44:14
@gate32:matrix.orggate32
In reply to @persono.id:matrix.org
Or maybe you personal AI agent scans markets and collects personal proposals that will fit your demands and params.
I would like to just have a global database of everything available out there on my pc, and to search through it, again, locally, so that my sizes and any other info is never sent to anybody
17:46:12
@gate32:matrix.orggate32
In reply to @persono.id:matrix.org

The latter can be more accurate, but imagine all electronic devices are somehow gone (sun activity, it will eventually happen)

Ah, we then get back to stone age)

Yes, we may... So I think anything THAT global must have a backup plan, relying on just people. As simple as taxi. They can work with internet, with GSM, with paging, or without any. No cars? They'll pedal! =)
17:50:18
@gate32:matrix.orggate32I'm very sceptical about AI. It sure can do many things, but it doesn't have human understanding, so while being more accurate than human most of the time, it can make terrible inhuman decisions time to time.17:54:16
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id> I still don't get that solution though, and why does it so needs my biometry, and how will it be collected to check my identity, and if somebody collected it, and this is the only needed info to make some transactions (only myself, you say), then what prevents that person to pretend being me? You are asking right question. We've passed through the same when thinking it over) We don't see simple solution. Zero-knowledge is brilliant , but existing implementations are weak or expensive and there are a lot promising under development. Keeping you data local cuts off opportunities to access to depersonificated data, another key point of persono.id and there is no need to with ZKP.17:58:08
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

I'm very sceptical about AI. It sure can do many things, but it doesn't have human understanding, so while being more accurate than human most of the time, it can make terrible inhuman decisions time to time.

Well, it's just a buzzword) Think of a crawler or robot. AI means self educating system, as simple as that.

17:59:35
@gate32:matrix.orggate32
In reply to @persono.id:matrix.org

they may give you a proposal - so they don't know me, but can send me that proposal through some channel?

I'd say they sort of leave a message for you. Kinda anonymous postbox that only you have keys from.

Well, if you call that anonymous after they got to know my size and preferences and probably my ip and other browser info and my name and adress because I can't buy other way than delivery. While the last bits might be inevitable, are the first ones opt-in, again?
17:59:42
@gate32:matrix.orggate32> We don't see simple solution. - Me either... You kan replace your key, but you can't replace what you are... BUT you can also break what you are (loosing part of the body, getting ill, etc...)18:05:39
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

<@persono.id:matrix.org> > > they may give you a proposal - so they don't know me, but can send me that proposal through some channel?

I'd say they sort of leave a message for you. Kinda anonymous postbox that only you have keys from.

Well, if you call that anonymous after they got to know my size and preferences and probably my ip and other browser info and my name and adress because I can't buy other way than delivery. While the last bits might be inevitable, are the first ones opt-in, again?

You are trying to fit it in some existing solutions and technologies. But the whole system looks like a big open but encrypted (quantum computers safe) data totally managed by owners. Implementation is a different story.
ZKP is not so easy to grasp and good implementation is harder. But this is the key. Provide your depersonificated data with the only proof is that it belongs to a real person.
Recover your keys (by protocol).
Those are just a couple of fundamental properties.

18:06:18
@gate32:matrix.orggate32
Zero-knowledge is brilliant , but existing implementations are weak or expensive and there are a lot promising under development.Keeping you data local cuts off opportunities to access to depersonificated data, another key point of persono.id and there is no need to with ZKP.
Read it multiple times and still can't get what you mean. Keeping what data where?
18:08:08
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.idI mean that you really give it quite a thought. And the hardest thing is the protocol.18:08:31
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

Zero-knowledge is brilliant , but existing implementations are weak or expensive and there are a lot promising under development.Keeping you data local cuts off opportunities to access to depersonificated data, another key point of persono.id and there is no need to with ZKP.
Read it multiple times and still can't get what you mean. Keeping what data where?

Keeping data in a sort of a blockchain, but implement differently.

18:09:22
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

We don't see simple solution. - Me either... You kan replace your key, but you can't replace what you are... BUT you can also break what you are (loosing part of the body, getting ill, etc...)

You can't replace WHO you are, absolutely right!
That's what we call Proof of Identity.

18:11:25
@gate32:matrix.orggate32I guess I should read up on that ZKP implementations18:12:43
@gate32:matrix.orggate32
In reply to @persono.id:matrix.org

We don't see simple solution. - Me either... You kan replace your key, but you can't replace what you are... BUT you can also break what you are (loosing part of the body, getting ill, etc...)

You can't replace WHO you are, absolutely right!
That's what we call Proof of Identity.

But that also means that once YOU are compromised, you can't do anything with it, doensn't it?
18:13:46
@gate32:matrix.orggate32Like if I have your fingerprint and make it public, well, you are zucked18:14:42
@gate32:matrix.orggate32I get it'll be orders of magnitude harder with every possible parameter combined, but still doable18:16:24
@gate32:matrix.orggate32And very doable if we talk about governments, they already tend to collect as many as they can18:17:44
@persono.id:matrix.orgpersono.id

<@persono.id:matrix.org> > > We don't see simple solution. - Me either... You kan replace your key, but you can't replace what you are... BUT you can also break what you are (loosing part of the body, getting ill, etc...)

You can't replace WHO you are, absolutely right!
That's what we call Proof of Identity.

But that also means that once YOU are compromised, you can't do anything with it, doensn't it?

Like if I have your fingerprint and make it public, well, you are zucked

Nit quite.
Auth systems become more sophisticated.
Weins, voice, movements, face. And today it only can be safely combined with other methods. Besides there are many solutions in other areas, why not use it? Like banking transactions use a postponed transactions to prevent fraud. False-positive word in case of highjack. The access to the system to make tx may have only authenticated persons.
And even if you're kidnapped and forced to make some tx you should have an opportunity to roll back exactly that transaction. Like storno (corrections) accountants use, you know.
How would you solve it? Well, use virtually false-positive password to confirm tx. It might be a special combination of fingerprints, a word you pronounce, anything that let's the system know that you're in trouble. This is much, much deeper that might seem first.

19:08:45
@gate32:matrix.orggate32It is really very deep and technical. I fail to imagine it working. Ok, you can use your fingerpring to buy ice cream, and if it was not you, you can reverse it.... Waait a minute, how exactly do you reverse an ice cream?19:17:22
@gate32:matrix.orggate32I actually don't know what storno is. I don't use banks at all.19:19:51
@gate32:matrix.orggate32Or more correct, I'm not used by any banks directly19:21:12
@gate32:matrix.orggate32Anyways it seems to me that these auth systems must be really very sophisticated and they'll receive hell of a lot of data. If so, who would control, own, produce, support these? They also must cost a lot. Analize DNA, ha. And the least privacy-intrusive they'll seem the more they actually will be, just doing everything silently. Something like today's most popular 'social' networks. That's what makes me afraid of such future.19:28:32

Show newer messages


Back to Room ListRoom Version: 1