| 7 Sep 2018 |
 @juh_:matrix.org | Yes. More members would result in cheaper setups. | 11:35:15 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | We lowered the prices in the past when we got more members. | 11:35:49 |
 hw | juh_: why is traffic that expensive, an order of magnitude compared to the example or CommunityIX for example? | 11:35:54 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | As I said I didn't calculated the prices myself but all costs are real costs. Maybe others lower traffic prices for marketing reasons or lower bandwidth at a certain point. So traffic for free but lower bandwidth when you really use it. | 11:39:14 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | If you have investors you can offer low prices no matter how many customers you have. But someday you must meet the requirements of your investor. We only grow with our onw money. | 11:40:31 |
| hw | maybe you could ask around and find out? We are definitely open to all suitable options, and using the spreadsheet above to estimate cost efficiency and model usage | 11:40:42 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | ok | 11:42:10 |
| hw | 😃 we have no investors I guess, we are opting for a non-profit society, "Gemeinnütziger Verein", thus need to be careful and responsible spending the donations and membership fees of our members | 11:42:13 |
| hw | thus the careful model estimate to avoid overpaying | 11:42:38 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | I know, I meant – we have no investors too. ;-) | 11:42:47 |
 @davidak:matrix.org | in general, traffic is very expensive. big hosters like hetzner have many customers who use very little traffic, so they can include much when less than 30% of the customers really use it. also, since they buy peering and traffic in very high amounts, it's probably get a lot cheaper for them than a small datacenter | 11:43:35 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | What are you planning. Who can use teahub? Members only or everyone. For free or for a fee? | 11:43:42 |
| hw | Please see the terms-of-use draft https://staging.teahub.io/TeaHub/TermsOfUse/src/branch/master/TermsOfUse.md | 11:44:35 |
| hw | Please let us know if this is not sufficiently self-explaining or leaving open questions | 11:44:53 |
| hw | if so, we need to improve it | 11:45:00 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | So, who is paying for the service? | 11:47:58 |
| hw | Just like wikipedia, membership contributions and donations | 11:48:28 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | So not the user? | 11:48:38 |
| hw | as soon we realize we are running low on resources, we need to campaign for new donations, just like wikipedia, letsencrypt and so on | 11:49:07 |
| hw | we are open to all users, like all of the platforms above | 11:49:30 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | Mh. I must confess that I am not in favor of such a model. | 11:52:31 |
| hw | interesting, what are your concerns? | 11:53:35 |
| hw | (... concerns with regard to the model of Wikipedia and LetsEncrypt?) | 11:54:05 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | In such a model the user is neither the customer nor the owner, but bluntly speaking a welfare recipient. Sadly we are all accustomed to use services for free paying with our data. I don't think that this model is sustainable for such a service. The service provider depends on donors not the users. I know that this is more than common in the open source world but it leaves the user without self responsibility. We loose the sense for values and costs. | 12:03:48 |
| hw | That has been the spirit of Free and Open Source software development since the beginning, not? | 12:04:54 |
| hw | Contributing for a common good, and of course the common good is only sustained if we all care for it, sometimes more, sometimes less, but always enough to keep it alive and improving | 12:05:43 |
| hw | That's what FOSS is all about, in my opinion (but I am fully aware that other opinions can be surely valid, of course!) | 12:06:52 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | Yes, but there are differences between code and actual services. Free and open source is a more linked to knowledge – if you wanted to get a service like implementing an open source cms you have to pay a integrator. | 12:08:55 |
| @davidak:matrix.org | juh_: or just do it yourself. and when i setup such service, i easily can share it with others. and when i administrate with others it's even less work for me... that's what we are doing | 12:11:01 |
| @juh_:matrix.org | An example after Snowdon I quit Google Mail and useed mailbox.org for mail. The billed me 1 EUR per month. A fair price. | 12:11:05 |
