@paradoxical_003:matrix.org | paradoxical_003
If there are aliens, I guarantee you humanity will soon discover two things about them:
They are the worst racists out there, and see a racist society as the ultimate evolution of politics
and
They are the strongest proponents of anti-racism among everyone whom they seek to conquer and dominate
centi
?
centi
I guarantee two things in counter to that...
That so called evolution of politic enabling racism isn't going to be a thing... wanna know why? Because if driven one side to the corner with genocide, the other side would consider throwing a frigging asteroid at the planet in retaliation, that's one of the "Great Filter" if there is one.
.Everything you're saying is based on your misconceptions about alien, they can a vastly different psychology and physiology to our and it is possible for them to be more empathetic compare to our species.
paradoxical_003
centi
I guarantee two things in counter to that...
That so called evolution of politic enabling racism isn't going to be a thing... wanna know why? Because if driven one side to the corner with genocide, the other side would consider throwing a frigging asteroid at the planet in retaliation, that's one of the "Great Filter" if there is one.
.Everything you're saying is based on your misconceptions about alien, they can a vastly different psychology and physiology to our and it is possible for them to be more empathetic compare to our species.
racism isn't genocide, you could even be against genocide because you are racist.
empathy doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.
what do you think racism is?
centi
Meaning hatred of another race, you have generations of people grew up hating the race of others until it ultimately lead to extremist, because it's easier for people to enable hate when enabling racism. I point it out where it ultimately leads to, genocide and mass killing. That isn't the "ultimate evolution" of politic by any stretch, it's the ultimate division of politic which disallow us from working together to build a better future.
Empathy is the ability to recognize, understand, and share the feelings/thoughts of other people, animals, and species. We have no idea how sentient alien would be like, but it's possible for them to be peaceful and collaborative as it is human being violent and divisive.
paradoxical_003
centi
Meaning hatred of another race, you have generations of people grew up hating the race of others until it ultimately lead to extremist, because it's easier for people to enable hate when enabling racism. I point it out where it ultimately leads to, genocide and mass killing. That isn't the "ultimate evolution" of politic by any stretch, it's the ultimate division of politic which disallow us from working together to build a better future.
Empathy is the ability to recognize, understand, and share the feelings/thoughts of other people, animals, and species. We have no idea how sentient alien would be like, but it's possible for them to be peaceful and collaborative as it is human being violent and divisive.
racism is not the hatred of another race
if hatred of another race was what racism was, most people known as racists today would not be racists by your definition
Richard Spencer, not racist, Jared Taylor, not racist, George Rockwell, not racist, William pierce, not racist.
centi
Racism defined as: " Discrimination or prejudice based on race."
Prejudice defined as: "An irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics"
So yes
It's hatred
paradoxical_003
Then most white nationalists are not racists.
but they are racists, so your definition fails.
in fact, a lot of white liberals are considered racist, and they have a positive view of other races, like a "superior to whites" kind of positive view.
words are defined by how they are used, not some dictionary page.
most people considered racist today do not have any hatred towards other races, indeed, not only their words, but also their actions are consistent with this. but they are still racist.
As for their thoughts, i don't know, i only have access to my own thoughts, not anyone else's.
But hating other races is not the only thing defining racism, indeed, most racists do not seem to hate any other races at all.
if you want to know what I think it is, the answer is that I don't know. But at the very least the definition should extend to include the founder of the american nazi party.
It seems like something people sense, rather than have a solid description of.
but it does follow some rules, it only applies to white people, and it is a bad thing to be, and probably some other patterns that I'm not conscious of at the moment.
It's a moral judgement, not a very specific one.
at least that is how i see it being used
also, someone like robin deangelo admitted to hating blacks, but is known as one of the most influential anti-racists out there
JM
I'm really lost here. paradoxical_003 , are you saying white nationalism and similar views are acceptable because they don't meet a particular definition of racism?
paradoxical_003
so i guess hating another race might not be a determining factor in voiding you as an anti-racist, the opposite of racist.
JM
I'm really lost here. paradoxical_003 , are you saying white nationalism and similar views are acceptable because they don't meet a particular definition of racism?
I'm saying that either racism is not just hatred of other races, of those who lack hatred of other races, such as most white nationalists I've talked to, and many of the figures that defined their ideology, are not actually racist.
you can be not racist but still bad
JM
paradoxical_003
Richard Spencer, not racist, Jared Taylor, not racist, George Rockwell, not racist, William pierce, not racist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Taylor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Luther_Pierce
These people?
paradoxical_003
you can be not racist and downright evil
yes
those people
how do you not know who they are?
JM
Because I'm not from the US.
paradoxical_003
neither am i
JM
Are you defending them or are you arguing semantics?
paradoxical_003
nope, not defending them, just saying that genocide and hatred are not equivalent to racism, you can be racist and oppose genocide, you can be racist and lack hatred for other races, you can also be anti-racist (in fact, one of the most influential anti-racists out there) and hate other races.
JM
So, semantics then
paradoxical_003
important ones
vitally important ones
like, "people getting killed over them" important
JM
Perhaps, but this isn't really the place for it.
paradoxical_003
ok
i do think it would be nice if we could break down the word "racist" and "racism" into subtypes that ore accurately describe the people, actions, and positions they are applied to
I find that the application of the word is way too broad
I hear "this guy is a racist" and the range of what that could mean or be referring to are so many that it can be something innocuous and common to something rare and very scary.
centi
No, but I point out that racism enable extremist actions and where it ultimately leads to. We've seen plenty of that lately.
paradoxical_003
centi
No, but I point out that racism enable extremist actions and where it ultimately leads to. We've seen plenty of that lately.
lately?
centi
Anyway, I don't think I'll have anything productive to discuss with you
paradoxical_003
like what? did i miss something?
JM
So if we could keep it out of this room it'd be appreciated, thanks
mrdennmann
Shall we crate a "Rainbow scale of racism?
Oh, he's merely purple. incidental bias.
sigh.
paradoxical_003
yes, that is unironically something that should exist, different words for more specific nuanced meanings, so that people don't have to play a guessing game with one word that is used to refer to so many different (sometimes vastly different) concepts.
mrdennmann
Neat. How about Semi-Klan.
#feelingslightlygenocidal
paradoxical_003
the range of things (people, ideas, policies, etc.) that was called "racist" or "racism" is way too large.
the ottomans killed all their black slaves, and are not racist. the americans did not, and are racist.
mrdennmann
well. you must be running in some odd circles
All flavors of racism, are still racism.
JM
Perhaps I haven't been clear: this topic of discussion isn't appropriate for this room, so can we end it, please?
mrdennmann
Until you see the others, as yourself, you malfunction.
Understood @Jm
stepping back.
JM
If people wish to continue it they can do so in their private messages 👍
Thank you! | 20:56:29 |