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Matrix-native projects beyond chat: collaborative documents, blogs, generic KV databases, tools for thought, etc.73 Servers

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7 Sep 2021
@travis:t2l.ioTravisRHopefully something in that wall of text was of interest 😀 00:05:39
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In reply to @travis:t2l.io
Hopefully something in that wall of text was of interest 😀
Very much so! I appreciate you taking the time to write about it.
It feels a little unpleasant to have to have multiple clients doing the work to speak the Matrix protocol, but from chat in Fractal I learned that you have to if you want to keep end to end encryption.
Assuming SDK libraries get updated, OAuth looks like it would fix the problems for my SSH proxy agent idea.
If the scoped tokens can filter what messages the client can send and see that would further help in trusting the third-party client isn't malicious.
@trygve:trygve.meTrygveRedacted or Malformed Event09:42:08
@jryans:matrix.orgJ. Ryan StinnettRedacted or Malformed Event10:07:53
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8 Sep 2021
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@daniel:matrix.danilafe.comDanielSo the data structure used by matrix is a DAG, and there's even a "parent" relationship in the documentation. Is there a way to retrieve such a relationship? Alternatively, I'd want even a loose ordering of events.01:33:12
@kitsune:matrix.orgkitsune That's not something available in the client-server representation of events. But you can request a server-server (aka "federation") representation even in client-server /sync. 01:42:55
@daniel:matrix.danilafe.comDanielI see, using a filter. Is there really no better way for getting ordering?05:06:16
@miloignis:synapse.room409.xyzmiloignisWhat sort of ordering? The server returns the events to the client in order, having sorted them itself via the DAG. Do you want to be able to compare two arbitrary events for ordering, or something like that?05:45:10
@daniel:matrix.danilafe.comDanielWell, I'm thinking of a sort of "toggle" event, and I'd like a way to pick the "latest" event (or at least a set of "latest" events). Servers return events in the order that they arrive to the server, but over federation, in-order delivery is not guaranteed, right?05:47:26
@miloignis:synapse.room409.xyzmiloignisI'm not familiar with the exact way the server sorts events, sorry :/ On the other hand, have you considered using a state event / events for this? Each member that can send a toggle can send their own toggle state events keyed on their username, and then you can sum up all state events with that type. Since each user will only have one home server, you know that their individual toggle state event will be correctly ordered relative to itself06:06:47
@daniel:matrix.danilafe.comDanielI had that idea, yes! I don't know how state events work over federation, but the fact that they act as a sort of key-value map means that there's some ordering already enforced by the server. I haven't gotten around to testing it out, though, and wasn't sure if using state events is "ugly"06:10:07
@jryans:matrix.orgJ. Ryan Stinnett Daniel: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/574 and other linked issues from there might be helpful context on the different orderings 08:52:36
@jryans:matrix.orgJ. Ryan StinnettPersonally I've also found it confusing... In my opinion, it's not currently explained well in the spec text itself, but instead more implied.08:53:29
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10 Sep 2021
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12 Sep 2021
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13 Sep 2021
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17 Sep 2021
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22 Sep 2021
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23 Sep 2021
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