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MediaWIki Stakeholders' Group general discussion https://commonmark.org/help/3 Servers

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14 Nov 2019
21:34:50@freephile:matrix.orgfreephile Thanks for sharing nikerabbit
22:04:31@grin:grin.hugrin nikerabbit: don't worry, the server plays fun on you
15 Nov 2019
09:16:37@adsvs:matrix.orgadsvs
In reply to @darenwelsh:matrix.org
As I get into more and more side conversations with WMFers about third party support (whatever you mean by "third party" and whatever you mean by "support"), I'm usually at a loss for examples of where the existing system/culture is falling short of what third party people would like. Has MWStake compiled such a wish list of improvements to this relationship?
We tend to think of technical improvements, but there is one thing that comes to mind first. That is broadcasting, shouting to the world (from space?) that MediaWiki is a platform for 'third parties' and that there is 'support' for use of MediaWiki by companies and 'other' organizations. The positioning and marketing of MediaWiki is way behind its technical capabilities. We would love to see MediaWiki on Gartner magic quadrants and in other comparisons against for example SharePoint.
So the fact that there is third party support (whatever it is ;-) )is more important than what it is and what should be on the wishlist.
Having said that I'll see what I can do to create such a list on the MWStake site :-).
12:49:37@darenwelsh:matrix.orgdarenwelshSo rather than bringing forward any specific requests for technical implementation, your concern is just that the foundation acknowledge the platform is meant for more than Wikimedia sites and to support those use cases? Is that right? I guess I still don't know what you mean by "support", so it's hard to lobby for anything without specifics.
13:55:20@freephile:matrix.orgfreephile

I gave it my best shot: https://wiki.freephile.org/wiki/Pretty_URL/mediawiki

I'm still working on the Ultimate Nginx config for MediaWiki. I intend to put it into a git repo so you can see the includes too. As a matter of fact, it will eventually be part of QualityBox v2 so the whole server setup will be shared.

bryandamon if you want to do a hangout, I'd be happy to walk through the file with you to explain the rules

21:10:18@bryandamon:matrix.orgbryandamon @freephile : I'd love to! Next week is better for me if that works for you.
17 Nov 2019
16:26:53@darenwelsh:matrix.orgdarenwelshhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238384 Notes from an unconference session led by Grant (new WMF CTO) on measuring success. There are mentions of external interrupts and priorities here (no mention in notes of third party, directly)
16:30:25@darenwelsh:matrix.orgdarenwelshhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238234 Notes from an unconference session led by Chris Koerner about defining "third party".
16:31:30@darenwelsh:matrix.orgdarenwelshhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238274 Notes from an unconference led by yours truly and Leon (MusikAnimal) asking developers what user metrics would help them better design their software.
16:36:06@cicalese:matrix.orgcicalesehttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238234#5668778: "Our attempt to clarify our (WMDE) understanding of which "3rd party" (or rather: partners) . . .". I like the reframing of third parties as partners.
16:47:00@darenwelsh:matrix.orgdarenwelshhttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Technical_Conference/2019/Program Plenty more things from the conference linked here
18 Nov 2019
06:26:16@tgr:matrix.orgtgr
In reply to @cicalese:matrix.org
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238234#5668778: "Our attempt to clarify our (WMDE) understanding of which "3rd party" (or rather: partners) . . .". I like the reframing of third parties as partners.
I tried something similar at Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Partnerships/Free_software_as_a_partnership
06:29:07@tgr:matrix.orgtgr
In reply to @darenwelsh:matrix.org
As I get into more and more side conversations with WMFers about third party support (whatever you mean by "third party" and whatever you mean by "support"), I'm usually at a loss for examples of where the existing system/culture is falling short of what third party people would like. Has MWStake compiled such a wish list of improvements to this relationship?
I guess a bit late, but a decent wiki management experience (installer, upgrader, admin panel, config panel, extension marketplace) is the most obvious thing that's missing
06:29:55@tgr:matrix.orgtgralso restricting read permissions, but it's debatable how well that fits into the vision / values of MediaWiki
06:31:02@tgr:matrix.orgtgron the culture side, better code review (widely recognized issue, there are efforts to fix it) and marketing of MediaWiki (although not clear if the WMF should be the one doing it)
19 Nov 2019
17:20:33@daw5423:matrix.orgdaw5423 joined the room.
20 Nov 2019
14:03:19@cicalese:matrix.orgcicalese

As I get into more and more side conversations with WMFers about third party support (whatever you mean by "third party" and whatever you mean by "support"), I'm usually at a loss for examples of where the existing system/culture is falling short of what third party people would like. Has MWStake compiled such a wish list of improvements to this relationship?

The flow of the discussion at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/551346 may be an example.

14:30:02@hexmode:matrix.orghexmodeWhat does "unmaintained code" mean? If it works, does it need to have any activity around to be maintained? If bugs are fixed when they appear, isn't that maintenance?
14:30:50@hexmode:matrix.orghexmodeWhen it comes to free software like MediaWiki, should functionality be removed because a developer doesn't want to fix it when other people are using it?
15:33:29@freephile:matrix.orgfreephileJS question... why would this fiddle work on it's own, but fail silently when added to MediaWiki:Common.js https://jsfiddle.net/freephile/jws1rbyn/
15:37:48@freephile:matrix.orgfreephileI can only guess variable collision?
15:38:14@freephile:matrix.orgfreephileSo I'm working to namespace the functionality
15:56:26@freephile:matrix.orgfreephile There is a global $wgUseSiteJs which defaults to true and is not overridden anywhere
23:08:40@hexmode:matrix.orghexmodeanybody know who has set up the github mirror of gerrit?
23:09:38@hexmode:matrix.orghexmode mixed up github mirror
23:17:50@cicalese:matrix.orgcicalese hexmode: somebody involved in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200736?
23:19:20@hexmode:matrix.orghexmode cicalese: maybe? I'll post there, but there is no mirror using either case
23:19:54@cicalese:matrix.orgcicaleseAren't all extensions in gerrit mirrored on github?
23:31:41@cicalese:matrix.orgcicaleseWell, there you go.
23:58:58@freephile:matrix.orgfreephile

JS question... why would this fiddle work on it's own, but fail silently when added to MediaWiki:Common.js https://jsfiddle.net/freephile/jws1rbyn/

This may be a bug... looks like MediaWiki:Common.js is either not loaded in mobile or loaded differently -- The code works when loaded as a module from an extension in both mobile and desktop. The code doesn't work on mobile when contained in MediaWiki:Common.js


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