 | SD-Governance | 57 Members |
| Our Space will be centered around governance of our network, governance of our future civilizations and financial sustainability. | 21 Servers |
| SD-Governance | 57 Members |
| Our Space will be centered around governance of our network, governance of our future civilizations and financial sustainability. | 21 Servers |
| Sender | Message | Time |
|---|---|---|
| 30 Oct 2018 | ||
 mhpanda | Consentual prohibition is an option, for those who feel that other efforts do not work, or have not worked, for them. However, this should never be our default response to abuse; nor should prohibition ever be enforced unilaterally. | 11:37:23 |
 neutronstar | mhpanda: I agree, and I think the last part is particularly important to stress. But while it would be possible to make more programs to succeed, and less need for them if life wasn't so filled with strict rules you must follow, the drug addict most likely still need help. In a flexible and caring society the addict will seek and accept help in a much higher degree which means that voluntarily giving up part of your sovereignty should work. This however means the society need to have a way of enforcing this since the addict sought help because he/she cannot control themselves. In current societies I think this will be hard since there are so many expectations of what should always be allowed and what should always be forbidden, that the concept of things being forbidden for some people will be a challenge. | 12:48:15 |
| mhpanda | neutronstar: Yes. This would be done by the individual enrolling in a programme that has the means to locally block access, along the lines of volunteer admission to a "halfway house". The programme could begin with a full-time residency (again, voluntary). This would phase in "leaves"; first under supervised accompaniment, then peer accompaniment, and eventual short & long term unaccompanied leaves. Society itself won't have authority to enforce the prohibition, but a specific programme could enforce it locally through signed consent. The role of society would be in collectively providing for the resources the programme requires in order to enforce this consentual prohibition (that is, maintaining facilities where the individual can stay indefinitely at no cost, while still being offered opportunities to engage socially, professionally, and as a part of the community; providing supervision; providing certified counselling; providing medical consultation, as necessary; etc). | 16:14:46 |
| 4 Nov 2018 | ||
 Patrick Donovan | thoughts on a single tax applied as personal income tax and prohibiting any other forms of taxation? | 02:54:51 |
| 6 Nov 2018 | ||
| mhpanda | Likewise, in coordinating activities with external agents, there is a direct exchange of resources/services. | 14:35:53 |
| mhpanda | paurd: In terms of the structure I am promoting, and from the precendent set by SD to date, "taxation" really doesn't have any meaning nor sense. Taxation is a means for government to attain resources when the constituency establish a means of living external to that government. Although divisions within a government will "charge" each other for their services, they do not tend to tax one another. Even the idea of taxing civil service workers in modern government is the product of an extension of external capitalism applied internally for the sake of consistency. Here, the government is attaining resources directly from the constituency itself. Compensation is preferably through internal services, as well as access to a portion of those collective resources for individual use. It makes no sense to provide access to those resources/services and then withdraw them in the name of "taxation". | 14:36:08 |
| mhpanda | Sorry, there was a problem with my connection, and the two previous messages were inversed. | 14:36:47 |
| 16 Nov 2018 | ||
 grouchofractal joined the room. | 20:06:50 | |
| 26 Nov 2018 | ||
| Patrick Donovan | isn't there a word for when you start seeing something everywhere after thinking about that thing? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/11/how-i-changed-the-law-with-a-github-pull-request/ | 15:40:49 |
| 6 Dec 2018 | ||
| Patrick Donovan | thoughts on the pan-human federation? https://aeon.co/essays/we-urgently-need-a-legal-framework-for-space-colonisation | 02:58:21 |
 pete.b | oh my that's a long post | 03:35:03 |
| pete.b | welp for anyone reading it, note that the author gets some details about the outer space treaty wrong. but that' not the main point anyway | 03:41:59 |
| Patrick Donovan | "long read" indeed | 03:51:33 |
| Patrick Donovan | and bummer about the treaty; what'd they miss? | 03:54:54 |
| pete.b | i thought the phrase "space can be explored and used only for peaceful purposes" was misleading. the real phrase is "carry out activities... in accordance with international law... in the interest of maintaining international peace." conventional weapons are technically allowed in space, and have been used in space. only weapons of mass destruction are banned. not saying i endorse even conventional weapons though... | 05:44:19 |
| pete.b | the author also asks "If NASA were to install a habitat on Mars, would it de facto lay claim to a portion of Mars, merely by physically occupying it?" i'm pretty sure the answer is no, but the author's use of "de facto" clouds the issue | 05:46:13 |
| pete.b | idk the author probably thought more about it than me | 05:46:32 |
 suzi.bianco | That seems to be the international understanding of land claim on Earth though.... | 05:57:36 |
| suzi.bianco | Redacted or Malformed Event | 05:57:56 |
| pete.b | maybe i just don't like his writing style. felt like he was always hedging his arguments without backing them up. in this case he presents no argument why other countries would grant/honor property right within some arbitrary radius of a hypothetical planetary station. he also suggests the UN as a good model, then says there are problems with the UN, but does not confront those problems. maybe i'm just grumpy today 😅 | 06:06:51 |
| suzi.bianco | 😂 I think he is writing in very general terms, hence the lack of arguments... Just throwing ideas around... As much as I think this subject is extremely interesting, I personally don't thing we can come up with a system before it all happens... We can't possibly foresee all the variables. But it's a good exercise, and might actually help us solve some of our problems here on Earth... | 06:13:29 |
| suzi.bianco | Ooos, probably shouldn't be declaring that in this particular channel 😅 | 06:15:00 |
| neutronstar | I'm thinking about Asgardian when I read that text. Create your own space government even before going out there and problem is solved... | 06:20:45 |
 outbound | Asgardian? | 06:33:59 |
| Patrick Donovan | *Asgardia, a constitutional monarchy founded a couple years ago that exists entirely online (with the exception of a satellite in LEO that citizens/members consider to be sovereign territory). I thought it was an interesting an idea and joined the email list a while back, but haven't kept much in touch with it. Their most recent email mentioned citizenship dues, so I suppose my citizenship will expire at some point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgardia | 06:48:23 |
| outbound | Ah, missed that somehow. | 06:49:09 |
| neutronstar | @paurd:matrix.org: Thanks for correcting my spelling. They're ambitious, fixing citizenship and funding, but it's not clear to me where they they're heading. But on the other hand, it was a while ago I participated in the discussions. I did learn about Unish from there... | 11:07:37 |
| 9 Dec 2018 | ||
| Patrick Donovan | In reply to @neutronstar:matrix.orgno problem. And this Unish? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unish | 00:46:59 |
| neutronstar | @paurd:matrix.org: Yepp, and for those more familiar with Esperanto here's a comparison between them: A Comparison of Unish Grammar with Esperanto - Journal of Universal Language PDFhttps://www.sejongjul.org › download_pdf | 09:28:12 |
| neutronstar | Hmm, that was the link description, here's the link itself: https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sejongjul.org/download/download_pdf%3Fpid%3Djul-3-2-57&ved=2ahUKEwj15Iv6tpLfAhXhp4sKHemeBdIQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3eJf6B7OS45lcDEnnTkYYJ | 09:30:02 |