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13 Nov 2019
08:44:41@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter WoordDo i miss any other parts in explaining?
08:44:57@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsThe first thing is, fallback (automatic rollback) will not work in any case (or at least I have no idea how). Because for this you would need to have some kind of decision logic in your rom loader
08:45:58@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsnormally, the switching point is your bootloader. Only if the ROM loader would support deciding which partition to boot and also have watchdog support and so on it would potentially be possible to have a redundant bootloader with fallback. But I do not know of any constellation where this would work.
08:47:11@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsBut, what you can have is atomic bootloader updates. If you are able to establish a switch between an active and an inactive bootloader storage area. This is pretty much the same as for your A/B update, except that it is decoupled from that and does not allow fallbacks
08:50:19@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordmight be missing something here, as i'm not really a linux embedded guru in any way, but I would be ok with assuming the bootloader is stable, and have that implement auto fallback etc
08:50:40@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordwhich i think is that mender assumes as well. but it seems that the pi has firmware files on the bootloader partition
08:50:48@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordso you say rauc has no automatic fallback?
08:50:53@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns For the RPI, MBR boot partition switching should work. Unless I haven't tried it, yet. This technic is independent from the ROM loaders capabilities as it uses two 'virtual' regions for the first MBR partition and manipulates the MBR's first partition entry to either point to the first or the second 'virtual' region
08:51:35@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordbut that has no fallback?
08:55:04@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns Matthijs ter Woord, not for the Bootloader as this is technically not possible. For the normal rootfs/appfs or whatever of course there is a fallback possible in RAUC, but as for all systems, this (technically) depends on bootloader logic.
08:56:41@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordok, but keeping the bootloader and switching over rootfs (which might include newer linux kernel etc), it would include switching over firmware files?
08:56:43@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsbut in general I would recommand that you care of getting a deeper knowledge of these things as otherwise you will not be able to make the right decisions on your setup
08:57:27@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns Matthijs ter Woord, no. This is what I referred to with 'independent'
08:57:49@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsThere is no coupling of rootfs and firmware partition
08:58:19@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordno coupling: means 1 firmware partition and 2 (or more) rootfs's ?
08:59:09@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsThis will not work as rootfs is redundant with fallback while rootfs is not. If that is really a use case (and I would like to hear the arguemtnation for this first) one could potentially design such a setup. But then without fallback for rootfs too
08:59:21@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns Matthijs ter Woord, yes, basically
08:59:35@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns Matthijs ter Woord, https://rauc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/advanced.html#update-boot-partitions-in-mbr
08:59:47@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsis the section you should read on MBR bootloader updates
09:00:19@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter WoordWhat I'm after is being able to push an image to my device and it just working, with new kernels etc. This is the only thing that i'm missing with mender currently
09:02:54@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns You can push an update with either only rootfs or both rootfs and firmware update. And it should 'just work'.
09:03:40@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordbut no fallback?
10:00:29@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoernsFallback for rootfs, no fallback for firmware, by default no coupling of firmware and rootfs (repeating myself)
10:01:58@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordok, sorry for ignorance. Thanks for the info (and for keeping up with me)
10:52:32@freenode_ejoerns:matrix.orgejoerns Matthijs ter Woord, it is important to understand how this all works, thus I would recommend reading the RAUC documentation on this so that you will not end up in incorrect assumptions or expectations
10:55:48@mterwoord:matrix.orgMatthijs ter Woordok. Thanks for pointing that out
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14 Nov 2019
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