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25 Jun 2022
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghWhile you didn't ask, that 8211 isn't correct for consensus votes either which need 8192.06:48:50
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh * Scratch that -- thinking of Pi.06:50:34
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghAt any rate, 8211 isn't really anything in consensus. I suspect you saw that number on a Pi proposal because it takes a snapshot of the ticket pool and it's a percentage of that. Consensus voting doesn't snapshot like that though.06:52:06
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenYes, I thought the TSpend had the same as a proposal vote. I’m going to go back and re-read the doc. Thanks again for your help06:55:09
@philemon:decred.orgphilemon

Yes, I thought the TSpend had the same as a proposal vote. I’m going to go back and re-read the doc. Thanks again for your help

You can view more stats here, http://159.65.95.71:7777/tx/18cede674d4d47919e7fcdb48fef0f56162a1a2f9536d5f08ac70e093a14e4f5

10:47:35
@philemon:decred.orgphilemon *

Yes, I thought the TSpend had the same as a proposal vote. I’m going to go back and re-read the doc. Thanks again for your help

You can view more stats here, http://159.65.95.71:7777/tx/18cede674d4d47919e7fcdb48fef0f56162a1a2f9536d5f08ac70e093a14e4f5

10:53:09
@philemon:decred.orgphilemon *

Yes, I thought the TSpend had the same as a proposal vote. I’m going to go back and re-read the doc. Thanks again for your help

You can view more stats here, http://159.65.95.71:7777/tx/18cede674d4d47919e7fcdb48fef0f56162a1a2f9536d5f08ac70e093a14e4f5 . Read https://github.com/decred/dcps/blob/master/dcp-0006/dcp-0006.mediawiki#debit-treasury for more info.

10:54:40
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreen Great stuff, I like the update to the TSpend in the explorer 18:29:41
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenMin Required Yes Votes: 5896 votes, is this correct?18:41:31
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghIt changes over time as the vote progresses.18:51:39
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghI don't think the explorer should be showing that value personally. It'll be more likely to confuse than anything imo.18:53:23
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghThe explanation though is that it enables "short circuiting" which consensus votes don't have. In other words, it allows a treasury spend to be mined early when it's clear there is no way it can fail.18:55:31
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghConsensus votes, on the other hand, intentionally have fixed periods so that everybody knows with 100% certainty that if a vote passes the rules will change at block X without exception.18:56:30
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh * Consensus rule change votes, on the other hand, intentionally have fixed periods so that everybody knows with 100% certainty that if a vote passes the rules will change at block X without exception.18:56:44
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenOh, that’s interesting. So how many yes votes will short circuit the vote?18:57:55
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghIn the case of a treasury spend, however, once it's clear it is impossible that it will ultimately end up failing, it is allowed to be mined early so payments payments happen as quickly as possible.18:58:18
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh * In the case of a treasury spend, however, once it's clear it is impossible that it will ultimately end up failing, it is allowed to be mined early so payments happen as quickly as possible.18:58:22
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghThere is no set value. It changes depending on how many possible votes are remaining.18:58:37
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghHence why you see that min required going down.18:58:54
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghAs it gets closer to the end of the voting period, there are less possible "no" votes remaining to cause it to fail.18:59:16
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghLike I said, it's quite technical and not a super useful number to show imo, because without really digging into it, it won't be obvious at all.18:59:42
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh7.2 days is the fastest possible short circuit time.19:00:57
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenI think I’ve got it. It is quite confusing - the current calculation take into account all possible votes remaining. So even though quorum has been met with 100% yes votes there is still a possibility of it failing hence the current pass rate is 5896 yes votes and this will reduce once all the votes and abstains are in.19:05:11
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghYeah, that's basically right. Minor details, but you've got it.19:07:20
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenYes! These numbers have been driving me crazy 😂19:08:10
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecghIt's certainly not something I would bother going into detail on in an overview video by any means, but just for the sake of understanding, here is an example with a low number of blocks. Consider a total interval of 10 blocks, so a total of 50 possible votes, and you need 20% quorum (aka 10 votes minimum), 60% yes (aka 30 yes votes if none abstain). Now, say you're 3 blocks into the voting interval, there were two votes missed in the blocks that have already happened (meaning 13 votes cast), and of those 7 of them were yes. The max possible remaining votes at that point then is 7 blocks * 5 votes = 35 votes. Therefore the max possible number of votes that can possibly be cast is 35+13 (already cast) = 48 votes. Thus, in order to reach the required 60% yes, now a total of 29 votes are needed. However, there have already been 7 yes votes, so the min required yes votes to short circuit at that point is 29-7 = 22 votes. Indeed, if you check out the final math then, you would end up with 22+7 = 29 yes / 48 total ~= 60.4% yes.19:19:08
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh * It's certainly not something I would bother going into detail on in an overview video by any means, but just for the sake of understanding, here is an example with a low number of blocks. Consider a total interval of 10 blocks, so a total of 50 possible votes, and you need 20% quorum (aka 10 votes minimum), 60% yes (aka 30 yes votes if none abstain). Now, say you're 3 blocks into the voting interval, there were two votes that abstained in the blocks that have already happened (meaning 13 votes cast), and of those 7 of them were yes. The max possible remaining votes at that point then is 7 blocks * 5 votes = 35 votes. Therefore the max possible number of non-abstaining votes that can possibly be cast is 35+13 (already cast) = 48 votes. Thus, in order to reach the required 60% yes, now a total of 29 yes votes are needed. However, there have already been 7 yes votes, so the min required yes votes to short circuit at that point is 29-7 = 22 votes. Indeed, if you check out the final math then, you would end up with 22+7 = 29 yes / 48 total ~= 60.4% yes. 19:36:51
@phoenixgreen:matrix.orgphoenixgreenThank you, this example is really helpful.19:38:46
@davecgh:decred.orgdavecgh * The explanation though is that it enables "short circuiting" which consensus rule change votes don't have. In other words, it allows a treasury spend to be mined early when it's clear there is no way it can fail.20:00:30
@riseofkingfresh:matrix.orgriseofkingfreshAlways a pleasure to listen to jake. https://youtu.be/EAiIAbKQAjI23:15:11

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