| 9 Feb 2024 |
 oinkingpork | I doubt that parents' worrying about you is far less tiring than going to school btw | 18:56:11 |
| oinkingpork | Homework and the fear and anger of the discipline of disobedience made me want to kill myself everyday. They punish you harshly for any small disobedience and shame the whole class as routine, and I was too shameful to talk with my parents that I wanted to end these all. I felt like if I was not a top 5% student in the country, then my parents would immediately stop supporting me and I didn't even have a chance to go to a not that good university. This is not the truth, I knew my parents would let me try to take the entranxe exam of colleges even if I insisted in skipping schools, but the idea and propaganda by teachers that all children should go to school made me feel ashamed to even consider the fact that I could get into a university anyway. | 19:12:40 |
| oinkingpork | I really don't know how to explain many things. If you are scolded and shamed everyday, and others around you are super obedient, it's hard to try to skip school, talk with your parents, to see if you can learn at home, or at least you can cut your school time, or not be punished for not finishing homework, things like that.
In many times, suicide rather than these things is what comes to your mind, because you're too shameful. You are asking yourself to work like everyone around you, to always try to be more hardworking.
You are so scared. You are afraid that once you work less than people around you, you'll be punished. This sense of fear is so bonded to your self-doubt, and shame.
Because theoratically, they constrain you for your own good.
This institutionalization is so disciplining, that you don't even think if you stop, whether you'll really screw yourself up.
You're not doing things for your future. All you think in your heart is, "If I don't obey, then I'm vulnerable. People will shame me and punish me in order to improve my character."
"Or I'm not even vulnerable. I'm just plain lazy. Someone else's job is to eliminate my laziness, and they will succeed, because no one succeeds in rebellion." | 19:16:36 |
| 10 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | maybe if you want to make it work, say something like "i know im a kid i need some constraints but the school is too much i can learn by myself it'll be more efficient if my exam result drops you can check anyway" | 21:34:11 |
| oinkingpork | https://medium.com/@porkifiableoinking/77f3274bae60 | 21:34:19 |
| oinkingpork | why dont students unite together and use suicide threat to ask for less harsh schools | 22:59:59 |
| 11 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Another peculiarity of school is that it binds you not only with the punishment it reinforces you, it also binds you with the punishment it constrain others with. If the standard is set, it saves you the total amount of punishment you receive and creates the same sense of fear, but it also makes you feel trapped by yourself. It also hides the fear you feel from your constraining person. If you don't always get punished, they will think that you don't feel so bad, even though you always see others being punished and you are in fear.
A child, if he does not want to be constrained, should he increase or decrease his disobedience to achieve this? If he survives a certain amount of punishment (up to the constrainers, etc.) and maintains his disobedience, then others may reduce the constraint on him (because it becomes ineffective), or they may continue to increase the constraint on him (because of anger), or even be reluctant to support him in going to a less good college because of anger and disappointment. | 07:15:26 |
| 15 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | We cannot allow schools to continue. Adults have forgotten what it's like to be in school, the rules, the discipline, the motivational speeches, the scary atmosphere, and not a single person thinking "You are always allowed to make decisions for yourself without shame. You can leave this room at will." It’s not just a matter of reducing workload and school time; people are just playing on their phones after school, hiding from trauma and feelings of self-doubt. Kids are adults, and the worst kids are adults who happen to drink too much. People need to stop thinking reflexively of school, of "the habit and spirit of discipline," of reprimands and punishments. People should study at home and maybe go to some near-random classes on some near-random days just out of necessity and without threat of punishment. You should just hold the other person, ask him what learning content he thinks will be useful to him, ask him how he is feeling recently, remind him to do something he really needs to do, lie next to him playing on his phone, and ask him "Do you want me to remind you? " You give a lot, but you are his roommate, a really close roomate. If you really become his roommate, he will love you naturally. If people have to know math or something before going to college, then just study a few more years before going to college, or just skip a lot of stuff that is useless and you don't want to learn. | 22:41:39 |
| 17 Feb 2024 |
|  @benjamin:tomesh.net left the room. | 11:26:43 |
| 21 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Things are always wrong on many levels. You wish you could find out what you need on your own, but you are not allowed to; You also know that many things are useless, but you are not allowed not to do them; You want to do them whenever you want, but you are not allowed; You know you can do things as long as you have a friend by your side, but they choose to punish you and make you afraid. At most, they only know to ask you to sign a contract that says you're going to get spanked. Or ask you to predict what you're going to do every day for the next 1 month, and punish you if you don't. Then you are asked to listen to a bunch of sermons, filled with their emotion that they have "discovered the truth of education" and their sense of social responsibility to improve the character of others, along with the addition of 10 rules and punishments. | 19:29:26 |
| oinkingpork | I suspect that the idea of elevating someone else's character can make some people orgasm, especially if they are against their will. | 19:45:03 |
| oinkingpork | On the Chinese internet, you basically just have to say "I don't think students need to wear school uniforms" or "It's okay for students to be late", and a bunch of people will criticize you and call you a "Western ultra-liberal" and "the danger of Chinese culture". I can't tell how sincere they were when they said these things, whether they were people who messed up themselves because they didn't wear a school uniform or were late, or whether they were instructed to let other Chinese live in speech and shame. On the other side of the Chinese internet, many BDSM novels are written by middle school students. It may seem like a thrilling liberalism, but when you talk to the students who post it, they're still very obedient to the teachers and parents. | 20:27:29 |
| 22 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | When teachers lectured students in the front of the classroom—saying something like "Complaining is a sign of lack of discipline"—I always wished someone would kill themselves; I was just not that brave.
I don't know why people support the majesty of teachers. If people are very fragile and commit suicide when they see a majestic teacher, then there will be no majestic teachers in the world. | 06:39:57 |
| oinkingpork | Why don't people even try to tell their parents that they can study at home and not go to school, or just ask their parents to tell the school not to punish them for not doing their homework or being late or anything like that? | 20:31:31 |
| 23 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | why didnt you ask your parents | 13:59:51 |
| oinkingpork | I thought about the following. A child who strategically puts aside his quest for freedom and treats punishment as a job to make himself feel better. How's that? A child who always puts aside the pursuit of freedom and sees punishment as work. How's that? I would say that for the former, that in itself should also be his choice. For the latter, I want to take a rebellious attitude and don't want people to be like that. | 19:53:15 |
| 24 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | In reply to @oinkingpork:matrix.org
We cannot allow schools to continue. Adults have forgotten what it's like to be in school, the rules, the discipline, the motivational speeches, the scary atmosphere, and not a single person thinking "You are always allowed to make decisions for yourself without shame. You can leave this room at will." It’s not just a matter of reducing workload and school time; people are just playing on their phones after school, hiding from trauma and feelings of self-doubt. Kids are adults, and the worst kids are adults who happen to drink too much. People need to stop thinking reflexively of school, of "the habit and spirit of discipline," of reprimands and punishments. People should study at home and maybe go to some near-random classes on some near-random days just out of necessity and without threat of punishment. You should just hold the other person, ask him what learning content he thinks will be useful to him, ask him how he is feeling recently, remind him to do something he really needs to do, lie next to him playing on his phone, and ask him "Do you want me to remind you? " You give a lot, but you are his roommate, a really close roomate. If you really become his roommate, he will love you naturally. If people have to know math or something before going to college, then just study a few more years before going to college, or just skip a lot of stuff that is useless and you don't want to learn. Is reflection and self-awareness more painful than being punished? Why would people rather not oppose the latter than try the former? I'm not saying you should be forced by the latter to choose the former; the former can be a choice you are free to make in your natural state. We can also teach another person the skills of self-restraint through conversation, and this is far from having to be done in a forced or reprimanding and shame-filled dialog. | 12:29:14 |
| 25 Feb 2024 |
| oinkingpork | college is good
school is bad
you should do homeschooling
you still go there just dont let them punish you
just only do homework and classes you think useful
dont let teachers punish you
talk with ur parents about it | 18:53:39 |
| oinkingpork | college is good
school is bad
you should do homeschooling
you still go there just dont let them punish you
just only do homework and classes you think useful
dont let teachers punish you
talk with ur parents about it | 19:14:03 |
| oinkingpork | try it | 19:14:24 |
| oinkingpork | try it
chinese people dont try that. people think if a child tastes freedom then they'll be bad. that's why kindergartens here have holiday homework
try it | 19:25:22 |
| 2 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Think of it this way. When you go to school, you study 10 hours a day. If you're not constrained, you can study only what you need to, and 5 hours a day is enough. If you only need to study 5 hours a day, you don't need any punishment or reprimand. You feel now that you can't learn for 5 hours a day. That's because you're still disciplined and you feel angry and sometimes rebellious. And, even if you still need to study 10 hours a day, there are plenty of other ways to do that with no one constraining or punishing you. For example, find a friend to keep you company. Let's say, hypothetically, that you have no idea what you need to learn and therefore you need to learn 15 hours a day after you leave school. Then you just go on to school. Just, you don't need to be punished or disciplined. You skip maybe 30% of the classes freely, and you use 10 x 30% x 1.5 = 4.5(hr) to remedy that. 7+4.5=11.5(hr) per day. You have just traded 1.5hr/day for freedom and still get the same result. Still, find a friend to accompany you. | 18:53:59 |
| 4 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | I remember in middle school, every time the teacher talked about the "disordered" thermal movement of molecules, the students would gasp just because of the word "disorder". We thought about something, and we were a little nervous, afraid that the teacher would criticize us on the topic implied by the word. | 09:25:55 |
| 7 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | chinese are evil when a kid feels rebellious they want to force them more to 'break their rebellion' so they're evil. | 16:04:32 |
| 8 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Redacted or Malformed Event | 20:36:45 |
| 12 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Adults do more than force children to pay attention to long-term interests. What adults fear most is that the child will focus on or emotionally care about his interests over a period of months, because such a child will not give up disobedience in order to avoid the hassle of arguments and punishments, on the one hand, and on the other hand, he will not be willing to obey by valuing his own interests decades down the road. This matter is the essence of adult control of children. It's also heartbreaking. | 20:05:32 |
| 18 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | For example, a teacher uses a conspiracy theory argument one day to support discipline and punishment of students, you go home, hug yourself, cry, comfort yourself and say "conspiracy theories are bad", the next day the teacher says that the prevalence of conspiracy theories proves a lack of discipline and punishment of the students, and a student tells the teacher that his statement the day before was a conspiracy theory, and then the The teacher will say that "in order to avoid such inconsistencies in human beings, one needs discipline and restraint during one's time as a student", and that "this reflective nature of the student is proof of the success of his education and of the depth of Chinese culture embedded in discipline". but "If you continue to be disruptive and interfere with the normal management of the class, then you will be punished" and the last sentence does not become the first sentence of the teacher's response proving the virtue of mercy. | 13:42:50 |
| 19 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | If all children commit suicide as soon as they are persecuted, then they will be free. | 14:53:32 |
| oinkingpork | Man has the freedom to indulge himself. This freedom, like any freedom, is inviolable, and its violation is immoral. Self-destruction in any form, whether it's as immediate as suicide or playing on your phone at 3 a.m., is inviolable. If someone has a natural emotion and hopes that someone else will not do it, then that person must be a parent, not a government or a school. | 15:00:37 |
| oinkingpork | Also, I really don't feel that I have the right to ask others to study hard to develop the economy of the society. | 15:16:35 |
