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28 Jan 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI think a lot of people don't know anything about what's going on with their children. For example, there is a saying that "specific knowledge is not important, but learning ability is important". What I hope is that people should try to minimize the restraint and punishment of their children, but instead let them try to go to work and give them ample opportunities to continue learning. Because learning is all about finding a good job, doing so minimizes the unnatural consequences for your child. But some people don't understand this sentence that way. They interpret this phrase to mean that people should strengthen the discipline of students, because even seemingly meaningless rules and punishments are meaningful in the sense of cultivating habits and improving character. If they think that's what the phrase means, they should object to it.17:30:38
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkAlso, the ability to learn can be additionally mastered as you learn what you need to learn. It is foolish to force a person to develop the ability to learn.18:43:54
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkWhat China's primary and secondary school students need is not all-round development, not the spirit of innovation, not the ability to learn independently, and not the cultivation of self-expression. They lack nothing but freedom.20:06:58
1 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkIf your family is financially acceptable, you can ask your parents to support you for a few more years so you don't have to study as hard and still end up with the same degree. But you have to make sure that your teachers or parents will be less harsh on you.14:15:42
3 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI spent a lot of time before I went to college to protect my freedom-loving psyche from the school and contemporary Chinese culture of shame. At that time, I often lay in bed in the middle of the night, crying for an hour or two, dealing with my psyche. I won't say I regret that I didn't spend more... time?—to deal with my psyche to allow me to do more things of what was perceived as short-sighted and ungrateful but in line with my heart's quest for freedom, such as accepting a month or two of reprimands from my parents and insisting on homeschooling.19:07:33
7 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkto suicide is human right20:49:10
9 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkRedacted or Malformed Event18:52:23
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI doubt that parents' worrying about you is far less tiring than going to school btw18:56:11
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkHomework and the fear and anger of the discipline of disobedience made me want to kill myself everyday. They punish you harshly for any small disobedience and shame the whole class as routine, and I was too shameful to talk with my parents that I wanted to end these all. I felt like if I was not a top 5% student in the country, then my parents would immediately stop supporting me and I didn't even have a chance to go to a not that good university. This is not the truth, I knew my parents would let me try to take the entranxe exam of colleges even if I insisted in skipping schools, but the idea and propaganda by teachers that all children should go to school made me feel ashamed to even consider the fact that I could get into a university anyway.19:12:40
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI really don't know how to explain many things. If you are scolded and shamed everyday, and others around you are super obedient, it's hard to try to skip school, talk with your parents, to see if you can learn at home, or at least you can cut your school time, or not be punished for not finishing homework, things like that. In many times, suicide rather than these things is what comes to your mind, because you're too shameful. You are asking yourself to work like everyone around you, to always try to be more hardworking. You are so scared. You are afraid that once you work less than people around you, you'll be punished. This sense of fear is so bonded to your self-doubt, and shame. Because theoratically, they constrain you for your own good. This institutionalization is so disciplining, that you don't even think if you stop, whether you'll really screw yourself up. You're not doing things for your future. All you think in your heart is, "If I don't obey, then I'm vulnerable. People will shame me and punish me in order to improve my character." "Or I'm not even vulnerable. I'm just plain lazy. Someone else's job is to eliminate my laziness, and they will succeed, because no one succeeds in rebellion."19:16:36
10 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkmaybe if you want to make it work, say something like "i know im a kid i need some constraints but the school is too much i can learn by myself it'll be more efficient if my exam result drops you can check anyway"21:34:11
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkhttps://medium.com/@porkifiableoinking/77f3274bae6021:34:19
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkwhy dont students unite together and use suicide threat to ask for less harsh schools22:59:59
11 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkAnother peculiarity of school is that it binds you not only with the punishment it reinforces you, it also binds you with the punishment it constrain others with. If the standard is set, it saves you the total amount of punishment you receive and creates the same sense of fear, but it also makes you feel trapped by yourself. It also hides the fear you feel from your constraining person. If you don't always get punished, they will think that you don't feel so bad, even though you always see others being punished and you are in fear. A child, if he does not want to be constrained, should he increase or decrease his disobedience to achieve this? If he survives a certain amount of punishment (up to the constrainers, etc.) and maintains his disobedience, then others may reduce the constraint on him (because it becomes ineffective), or they may continue to increase the constraint on him (because of anger), or even be reluctant to support him in going to a less good college because of anger and disappointment.07:15:26
15 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkWe cannot allow schools to continue. Adults have forgotten what it's like to be in school, the rules, the discipline, the motivational speeches, the scary atmosphere, and not a single person thinking "You are always allowed to make decisions for yourself without shame. You can leave this room at will." It’s not just a matter of reducing workload and school time; people are just playing on their phones after school, hiding from trauma and feelings of self-doubt. Kids are adults, and the worst kids are adults who happen to drink too much. People need to stop thinking reflexively of school, of "the habit and spirit of discipline," of reprimands and punishments. People should study at home and maybe go to some near-random classes on some near-random days just out of necessity and without threat of punishment. You should just hold the other person, ask him what learning content he thinks will be useful to him, ask him how he is feeling recently, remind him to do something he really needs to do, lie next to him playing on his phone, and ask him "Do you want me to remind you? " You give a lot, but you are his roommate, a really close roomate. If you really become his roommate, he will love you naturally. If people have to know math or something before going to college, then just study a few more years before going to college, or just skip a lot of stuff that is useless and you don't want to learn.22:41:39
17 Feb 2024
@benjamin:tomesh.net@benjamin:tomesh.net left the room.11:26:43
21 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkThings are always wrong on many levels. You wish you could find out what you need on your own, but you are not allowed to; You also know that many things are useless, but you are not allowed not to do them; You want to do them whenever you want, but you are not allowed; You know you can do things as long as you have a friend by your side, but they choose to punish you and make you afraid. At most, they only know to ask you to sign a contract that says you're going to get spanked. Or ask you to predict what you're going to do every day for the next 1 month, and punish you if you don't. Then you are asked to listen to a bunch of sermons, filled with their emotion that they have "discovered the truth of education" and their sense of social responsibility to improve the character of others, along with the addition of 10 rules and punishments.19:29:26
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI suspect that the idea of elevating someone else's character can make some people orgasm, especially if they are against their will.19:45:03
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkOn the Chinese internet, you basically just have to say "I don't think students need to wear school uniforms" or "It's okay for students to be late", and a bunch of people will criticize you and call you a "Western ultra-liberal" and "the danger of Chinese culture". I can't tell how sincere they were when they said these things, whether they were people who messed up themselves because they didn't wear a school uniform or were late, or whether they were instructed to let other Chinese live in speech and shame. On the other side of the Chinese internet, many BDSM novels are written by middle school students. It may seem like a thrilling liberalism, but when you talk to the students who post it, they're still very obedient to the teachers and parents.20:27:29
22 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkWhen teachers lectured students in the front of the classroom—saying something like "Complaining is a sign of lack of discipline"—I always wished someone would kill themselves; I was just not that brave. I don't know why people support the majesty of teachers. If people are very fragile and commit suicide when they see a majestic teacher, then there will be no majestic teachers in the world.06:39:57
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkWhy don't people even try to tell their parents that they can study at home and not go to school, or just ask their parents to tell the school not to punish them for not doing their homework or being late or anything like that?20:31:31
23 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkwhy didnt you ask your parents13:59:51
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI thought about the following. A child who strategically puts aside his quest for freedom and treats punishment as a job to make himself feel better. How's that? A child who always puts aside the pursuit of freedom and sees punishment as work. How's that? I would say that for the former, that in itself should also be his choice. For the latter, I want to take a rebellious attitude and don't want people to be like that.19:53:15
24 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingpork
In reply to @oinkingpork:matrix.org
We cannot allow schools to continue. Adults have forgotten what it's like to be in school, the rules, the discipline, the motivational speeches, the scary atmosphere, and not a single person thinking "You are always allowed to make decisions for yourself without shame. You can leave this room at will." It’s not just a matter of reducing workload and school time; people are just playing on their phones after school, hiding from trauma and feelings of self-doubt. Kids are adults, and the worst kids are adults who happen to drink too much. People need to stop thinking reflexively of school, of "the habit and spirit of discipline," of reprimands and punishments. People should study at home and maybe go to some near-random classes on some near-random days just out of necessity and without threat of punishment. You should just hold the other person, ask him what learning content he thinks will be useful to him, ask him how he is feeling recently, remind him to do something he really needs to do, lie next to him playing on his phone, and ask him "Do you want me to remind you? " You give a lot, but you are his roommate, a really close roomate. If you really become his roommate, he will love you naturally. If people have to know math or something before going to college, then just study a few more years before going to college, or just skip a lot of stuff that is useless and you don't want to learn.
Is reflection and self-awareness more painful than being punished? Why would people rather not oppose the latter than try the former? I'm not saying you should be forced by the latter to choose the former; the former can be a choice you are free to make in your natural state. We can also teach another person the skills of self-restraint through conversation, and this is far from having to be done in a forced or reprimanding and shame-filled dialog.
12:29:14
25 Feb 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkcollege is good school is bad you should do homeschooling you still go there just dont let them punish you just only do homework and classes you think useful dont let teachers punish you talk with ur parents about it18:53:39
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkcollege is good school is bad you should do homeschooling you still go there just dont let them punish you just only do homework and classes you think useful dont let teachers punish you talk with ur parents about it19:14:03
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporktry it19:14:24
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporktry it chinese people dont try that. people think if a child tastes freedom then they'll be bad. that's why kindergartens here have holiday homework try it19:25:22
2 Mar 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkThink of it this way. When you go to school, you study 10 hours a day. If you're not constrained, you can study only what you need to, and 5 hours a day is enough. If you only need to study 5 hours a day, you don't need any punishment or reprimand. You feel now that you can't learn for 5 hours a day. That's because you're still disciplined and you feel angry and sometimes rebellious. And, even if you still need to study 10 hours a day, there are plenty of other ways to do that with no one constraining or punishing you. For example, find a friend to keep you company. Let's say, hypothetically, that you have no idea what you need to learn and therefore you need to learn 15 hours a day after you leave school. Then you just go on to school. Just, you don't need to be punished or disciplined. You skip maybe 30% of the classes freely, and you use 10 x 30% x 1.5 = 4.5(hr) to remedy that. 7+4.5=11.5(hr) per day. You have just traded 1.5hr/day for freedom and still get the same result. Still, find a friend to accompany you.18:53:59
4 Mar 2024
@oinkingpork:matrix.orgoinkingporkI remember in middle school, every time the teacher talked about the "disordered" thermal movement of molecules, the students would gasp just because of the word "disorder". We thought about something, and we were a little nervous, afraid that the teacher would criticize us on the topic implied by the word.09:25:55

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