| 17 Aug 2019 |
 Matthew | Mo π°: i understand this :) but my point is that if Matrix was better, its transport could be used for both push & sync (complete with fast recovery in the face of network outages for both push & sync) | 21:47:31 |
| Matthew | as push is a subset of sync | 21:47:36 |
| Matthew | it's literally a filter that says "please only send me events which are notifs. and btw i (probably) don't care about any of the fields on the events; i just want to be woken up". | 21:48:08 |
| Matthew | this is why we experimented with the CoAP transport for Matrix | 21:48:16 |
| Matthew | as per https://matrix.org/blog/2019/03/12/breaking-the-100-bps-barrier-with-matrix-meshsim-coap-proxy | 21:48:25 |
| Matthew | (which btw outperforms both SSE & WS by a factor of about 50 in terms of bandwidth - and gives you as good semantics for detecting connection outages ;) | 21:48:58 |
| Matthew | however, we haven't progressed much further than the initial PoC in terms of improving /sync to be push-based (rather than long poll) and have push-style filtering semantics, or hooking up to CoAP, sadly | 21:49:33 |
| Matthew | but ftr this is the direction we've been considering for Matrix. | 21:49:39 |
| Matthew | it would also have the nice side-effect that any FLOSS project that wanted Push might get Matrix for free | 21:49:49 |
| Matthew | which would be a great step in terms of having Matrix as a general purpose FLOSS messaging infrastructure for the wider world (rather than using bidirectional msging in Firebase and getting locked into Google, or whatever) | 21:50:36 |
 Mo π° | oh wow :) i didn't know that. that sounds very interesting. i wiil have to watch the video. I'm reading for the first time about CoAP π
thats definitely a very nice perspective / vision for matrix β€οΈ | 21:53:03 |
| Matthew | (btw, sputnik looks super-impressive, now i've got to a laptop and able to look at the repos :) | 21:53:04 |
| Matthew | if you look at the slides for that talk (prolly easier to flip through https://matrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2019-02-03-FOSDEM-Low-Bandwidth.pdf rather than hear me drone on) you'll see i evaluated http in various flavours (albeit not WS or SSE admittedly) and how we converged on CoAP + Noise | 21:54:02 |
| Matthew | CoAP is fun because it looks & smells like HTTP, and so maps really easily to Matrix | 21:54:12 |
| Matthew | but you also get an OBSERVE method, which lets you do SSE-style behaviour | 21:54:21 |
| Mo π° | In reply to @matthew:matrix.org
(btw, sputnik looks super-impressive, now i've got to a laptop and able to look at the repos :) thanks, but it's still in a very early stage and there is still a lot to do :) | 21:54:20 |
| Matthew | on the sync/push stuff; please please understand that matrixβs sync stuff is not intrinsically long polling at all - thatβs just the crappy default http transport | 22:01:33 |
| Matthew | https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/master/drafts/websockets.rst is a proposal and implementation for mapping it to WS for instance and using true push rather than long poll | 22:02:28 |
| Matthew | but the coap stuff obsolete that now | 22:02:35 |
| Mo π° | In reply to @matthew:matrix.org
on the sync/push stuff; please please understand that matrixβs sync stuff is not intrinsically long polling at all - thatβs just the crappy default http transport I guess I understand your point. http is currently the most pragmatic solution that just works for most clients/servers/platforms. | 22:06:32 |
| Mo π° | In reply to @matthew:matrix.org
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/master/drafts/websockets.rst is a proposal and implementation for mapping it to WS for instance and using true push rather than long poll oh, didn't know that. i will compare it with my current push implementation. i might find something that helps me to improve my implementation π€ | 22:08:10 |
| Mo π° | In reply to @matthew:matrix.org
but the coap stuff obsolete that now i really have to find out what coap is π sound like a silver bullet. since it's now midnight where I live, i'm going to watch the coap video tomorrow :) | 22:11:43 |
| Mo π° | i also have to go to bed now π΄ .... good night π | 22:12:44 |
| Matthew | In reply to @forgemo:mos.app
I guess I understand your point. http is currently the most pragmatic solution that just works for most clients/servers/platforms. precisely. the only reason we use it is to make it easy to write clients, and because alt transports are immature | 22:13:05 |
| Matthew | night! | 22:13:23 |
| Matthew | In reply to @forgemo:mos.app
oh, didn't know that. i will compare it with my current push implementation. i might find something that helps me to improve my implementation π€ that proposal maps the whole CS API to websockets, so it won't be very efficient for your purpose - it'd need the "only send me events for pushes!" extension to work as you want | 22:15:57 |
| Matthew | (plus as you can tell, i think you should use something like CoAP or possibly QUIC rather than ye olde websockets for push :) | 22:16:14 |
|  ππ joined the room. | 23:11:00 |
| 18 Aug 2019 |
 @progserega:rsprim.ru | In reply to @forgemo:mos.app
I fixed the issue with russian text in the latest release. :) π·πΊπͺπ Thank you very match! | 00:38:51 |
|  @svenvnl:matrix.org joined the room. | 08:43:14 |
