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7 Oct 2021
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler

I'm not sure I understand this process you describe, there is no "challenge tx" in drivechain. Miners simply upvote or downvote withdrawal transactions in the blocks they mine, and in drivechain a hostile majority would be able to out-vote the honest minority.

i know, sorry, it's hypothetical...

00:24:22
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettlerthe idea was that anyone could issue a challenge tx (after the miners start committing to a peg-out txid) with sufficient offering (which a miner could take in the end of the arbitration unless they fail it) but not including this tx in a block would be admission of guilt (as it is economically unsound not to take it unless they are in the wrong)00:27:47
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettleran admission of guilt clearly visible to all nodes on the network.00:28:14
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * an admission of guilt clearly visible to all nodes on the network (thus making automated uasf possible by blacklisting the peg-out txid).00:29:32
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * an admission of guilt clearly visible to all nodes on the network (thus making automated uasf possible by blacklisting the peg-out txid). and the upside is it doesn't exactly require a specific form of conflict resolution, because bitcoin script is flexible and extensible so from federated multi-sig oracles (currently possible) through merkle proofs (like arbitrum) all the way to zk proofs the upgrade path would be clear and the mechanism would be the same. what you linked could be superior tho need to digest it.00:33:28
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler *

I'm not sure I understand this process you describe, there is no "challenge tx" in drivechain. Miners simply upvote or downvote withdrawal transactions in the blocks they mine, and in drivechain a hostile majority would be able to out-vote the honest minority.

i know, sorry, it's hypothetical... (basically a slap-on optional addition to bip-300)

00:58:16
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * the idea was that anyone could issue a challenge tx (after the miners start committing to a peg-out txid) with sufficient offering (which a miner could take in the end of the arbitration unless they fail it) but not including this tx in a block would be admission of guilt (as it is economically unsound not to take it unless they are in the wrong) possible (hypothetical) outcomes: a) challenge not issued (normal bip-300 process, almost always this is the expected outcome) b) challenge issued but miners ignore it (tx stuck in mempool, automatic uasf by p2p nodes) c) challenge issued, miner accepts and wins, staked amount lost to miner (spam protection by cost) d) challenge issued, miner commits to it but loses or abandons it (automatic uasf, miner loses stake to challenger)01:04:34
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * the idea was that anyone could issue a challenge tx (after the miners start committing to a peg-out txid) with sufficient offering (which a miner could take in the end of the arbitration unless they fail it) but not including this tx in a block would be admission of guilt (as it is economically unsound not to take it unless they are in the wrong) possible (hypothetical) outcomes: a) challenge not issued (normal bip-300 process, almost always this is the expected outcome) b) challenge issued but miners ignore it (tx stuck in mempool, automatic uasf by p2p nodes) c) challenge issued, miner accepts and wins, staked amount lost to miner (spam protection by cost) d) challenge issued, miner commits to it but loses or abandons it (automatic uasf, miner loses stake to challenger) e) challenge committed, but miners abandon disputed peg-out tx, timelocked refund transaction to challenger now of course miners could stiff the challenger on reward/refund and so on (temporarily) but would still be unable to steal from escrow.01:13:57
@barry.riot:matrix.orgBarry joined the room.02:13:04
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettlerand one more thing: zk proofs are expensive from what i understand (i don't yet fully understand the exact primitives and how they work) so this poses a problem for normal operations, but if traditional commitments bind the chains together, then zk proofs can be constructed ONLY on demand in case of conflict resolution / arbitration. which could help a lot also give the system flexibility. like various sidechains could operate on various levels of trust / assurance. experimental chains on nothing, federated validated chains should have no problem with the oracle method and extreme trustless financially critical sc could use zk proofs.09:44:23
@barry.riot:matrix.orgBarry left the room.10:29:21
@molgrum:matrix.organdreasBitcoin is currently in a bull run. How do I know when the bull run is at a peak and it's time to sell?16:22:21
@errhammr:matrix.orgerrhammrYou don't. I don't. If Elon posts something it'll rise more quickly and if some country regulating btc is in the news it'll drop. It's a gamble, it's a game, prepare yourself to lose it all.16:54:30
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler andreas: impossible to tell, but i find $288k plausible. that's my target for this cycle. 18:38:41
@lightcoin:matrix.orglight$238,855 is in play https://twitter.com/CryptoCobain/status/133933515460361421021:33:01
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettlerthat's the most scientific approach i have seen so far. but... a $ bill is not a mile long.21:33:49
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * that's the most scientific approach i have seen so far.21:39:58
@errhammr:matrix.orgerrhammrLol that's genius21:42:20
8 Oct 2021
@droberts:matrix.muhroads.netDanare there vector images of the "Logo with text" images here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Promotional_graphics ? According to the original bitcointalk thread, it used the "Ubuntu" font. With that I was able to get pretty close using the "Medium Italic" font, but it's off slightly. The glyphs are slightly different, and the spacing is wrong. https://imgur.com/Sy4NVOQ (red is my attempt overlayed on the png "original") If it was only the spacing I could solve that manually, but the glyphs are subtly wrong too. I might grab an older version of the "Ubuntu" font to see if that's the difference.16:03:46
@errhammr:matrix.orgerrhammrIsn't your work close enough? I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you hadn't done the red overlay thing.19:40:35
@droberts:matrix.muhroads.netDanYeah it's fine it just seems silly to recreate it when the original SVG must be out there somewhere. I believe it's linked in the original thread but the Dropbox link 404s now21:41:35
@gamaflow900:matrix.orggamaflow900Redacted or Malformed Event23:46:37
@lightcoin:matrix.orglight
In reply to @droberts:matrix.muhroads.net
are there vector images of the "Logo with text" images here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Promotional_graphics ? According to the original bitcointalk thread, it used the "Ubuntu" font. With that I was able to get pretty close using the "Medium Italic" font, but it's off slightly. The glyphs are slightly different, and the spacing is wrong. https://imgur.com/Sy4NVOQ (red is my attempt overlayed on the png "original") If it was only the spacing I could solve that manually, but the glyphs are subtly wrong too. I might grab an older version of the "Ubuntu" font to see if that's the difference.
info I found in a quick search suggests it is specifically the font Ubuntu Bold Italic but I'm not sure that's authoritative
23:50:03
@lightcoin:matrix.orglightanyways, here are some SVGs: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bitcoin_logo.svg23:51:07
@lightcoin:matrix.orglight went down a bitcoin logo history rabbit hole and re-discovered this classic post: https://medium.com/@Phil_Wilson/bitcoin-symbol-and-logo-origins-5d428d40380 23:52:05
@lightcoin:matrix.orglight * went down a bitcoin logo history rabbit hole and re-discovered this classic post: https://medium.com/@_Phil_Wilson_/bitcoin-symbol-and-logo-origins-5d428d40380 23:52:26
9 Oct 2021
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettlerthere is a big fight going on about the sats logo right now.00:02:57
@droberts:matrix.muhroads.netDan
In reply to @lightcoin:matrix.org
info I found in a quick search suggests it is specifically the font Ubuntu Bold Italic but I'm not sure that's authoritative
thanks!
00:13:00
@moonsettler:matrix.orgmoonsettler * there is a big fight going on about the sats logo right now. https://twitter.com/IIICapital/status/144643286745469747400:13:55
@gamaflow900:matrix.orggamaflow900
In reply to @moonsettler:matrix.org
there is a big fight going on about the sats logo right now. https://twitter.com/IIICapital/status/1446432867454697474
What is this all about?... I don't get why people are mentioning decentralization?
02:05:12

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