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13 Dec 2018
14:18:05@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyalaThey rightfully do so.
14:19:39@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThe technique that IBM Consulting Group consultants were trained in was Barbara Minto's Pyramid Principle, http://www.barbaraminto.com/
14:20:16@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingI now see a more recent blog post about how the Minto presentation technique came from McKinsey https://medium.com/lessons-from-mckinsey/the-pyramid-principle-f0885dd3c5c7
14:21:28@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThis impacted the way that consultants worked together. Everyone would create slides as individuals, which would then get printed out, and stuck up on the wall. The order of the slides was shuffled. Slides that were similar were combined. Redundant material was resequenced into an appendix.
14:23:48@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThe Minto technique enforces what is called vertical logic and horizontal logic. The vertical logic is that the main idea for the slide is in the headline (which would be the first paragraph on a wikicard), and the supporting ideas (texts and drawings) would appear below the headline. If there was to much content for a single slide (i.e. fonts should have been larger than 16-point, 14-point if REALLY in a pinch), another slide should be created.
14:24:54@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThe horizontal logic of creating slide decks would be reading ONLY headlines across slides. This impacts the sequencing of slides, and identifes gaps and redundancies. This in federated wiki, would be called a lineup.
14:26:45@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingSo, the first sentence on Welcome Visitors should be something like, "This card is an entry point into an expanding federated wiki world" ... or something like that. Using the phrase "wiki page" is confusing, not only because people don't know what a wiki is, but it also confuses with "web page".
14:27:33@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingSo, the longer content task, on the entire federated wiki universe, would be to watch out for when we're using the idea of a "wiki page", and change that either to "wikicard" or "card".
14:28:12@daviding:matrix.orgdaviding(Now that I've done the mind dump, I'll go for breakfast, and wait for responses from others on this proposed reframing).

yala: In response to

Is anybody using these pattern languages, or are they only being created time after time, as a tool for the authors to reflect upon their intentions?

I've been at PLoP, Purplsoc and PUARL conferences since 2014, and have been encouraging a migration to federated wiki. This has not led to collaboration. We need to get back to the original idea of Portland Pattern Repository at http://c2.com/ppr/ for the pattern language community.

14:51:36@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThis is the reason that I've been so focused on federated wiki over the past few weeks, not from advancing the technology, but towards getting new users on the platform. While I appreciate that a simple approach is to get a Digital Ocean machine and then use npm install, that's an unfamiliar step for non-technical people.
14:52:42@daviding:matrix.orgdavidingThe reason that I've documented (but not yet published) a blog post on installing federated wiki on cPanel is that many people use Wordpress, and when you tell them that federated wiki installation is like a Wordpress installation, that (not rationally, but emotionally) puts some minds at rest about a new technology.
14:53:58@daviding:matrix.orgdaviding(There's a small mistruth in saying that cPanel is so straightforward, however, because it's only a few shared hosting providers who are (i) up to date on cPanel, and (ii) allow/support node.js installations).
14:54:48@daviding:matrix.orgdaviding This I'm encouraged by eric working on Glitch, because it has potential for a user to have a one-button installation of a site that is really theirs.
15:06:15@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyalaAt Ecobytes we know of several shared hosting environments similar to those of cPanel, Froxlor, Plesk, ISPConfig, Vesta, Webmin and the likes. The wiki one is usually not to be experienced like a LAMP (Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP) installation. Also the concept of an independent process exposing HTTP at a port, and then having to reverse proxy ("What the heck is that?") is already confusing enough. "Where do I put the Apache configuration to run the wiki?"
15:07:26@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyalaPeople will learn some things about systems administration or package management along the way, that for sure. As long as we don't offer a one-click-install of some sorts, this will be tedious.
15:08:52@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyalaBy the way, we also have a shift in deployment patterns, coming from "shared hosting" of the SSH and SFTP types. Typically "hyperconvergent" infrastructure makes use of some containerisation layer somewhere these days, and it is not expected to have a permission/ACL system in place.
15:09:27@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyala We're looking at how to converge the practices of containerised, collective hosting with the #librehosters:matrix.allmende.io group. libreho.st
15:10:12@ya:matrix.allmende.ioyalaOne of the ideas is to produce a software catalogue from which users can deploy applications. I'm happy to extend on that subject, if requested.
14 Dec 2018
18:09:03@dobbs:matrix.orgericI've done more experimenting with plugmatic. It seems to be working fine, though revealed a different problem: https://wiki-wiki.glitch.me/plugmatic.html Seems the plugmatic installed plugins do not persist across glitch sleep and wake-up cycles (still confirming that claim).
21:21:21@dobbs:matrix.orgericPleasently surprised by glitch again. They seem to have some process that noticed I'd installed some npm packages and added them to the dependencies in my package.json. So the hickup I saw earlier where the plugins did not persist... apparently that kinda fixed itself. https://glitch.com/edit/#!/wiki-wiki?path=package.json:12:0
21:25:01@dobbs:matrix.orgeric Wonder if glitch made npm install default to saving the dependencies in package.json. In any case, I think authors will be free to use plugmatic to install plugins.
15 Dec 2018
02:05:07@Ward:matrix.orgWardWe considered both "card" and "article" as alternatives to wiki page. An article seemed to long while a card seem to fixed. Wiki page was a nod to the original wiki that called them pages too.
02:09:30@Ward:matrix.orgWardShould Plugmatic plugin add `--save` to the install operation? https://github.com/WardCunningham/wiki-plugin-plugmatic/blob/017fd580fb483c5db35d9cd0f41a2574a60d7059/server/server.coffee#L167
05:12:15@renarain:matrix.orgRobertTo add to the conversation about attracting more new users: In my opinion Glitch and Beaker are the best ways forward with this. If the barrier to entry is that new users have to host their own node.js server, then even with a relatively easy-to-use hosting provider we will probably only be able to get a few extremely dedicated users, which likely won't be enough for a healthy collaborative community. Just my two cents, I think it's great that we have these hosting options but I'm skeptical that they will be enough to spur adoption
16 Dec 2018
03:39:19@dobbs:matrix.orgeric Ward, I'm not sure whether --save is worth adding or not. In my containerized wiki, when I rebuild (e.g. to upgrade dependencies) the container, I have to re-install the plugins. But --save wouldn't help me because the changes saved in package.json would also be lost upon restart. And I suspect that wiki running in a VM instead of inside a container the changes to node_modules are persitent anyway.
03:47:12@dobbs:matrix.orgericAs an update on glitch... I haven't done an exhaustive test of all the plugins, but apart from the assets plugin, I've found glitch to be pretty similar editing experience to my containerized wiki at digital ocean. I want to see if I can get the flagmatic algorithm working to keep our branding in place. And I might also see if I can push our flags into glitch's icons.
06:13:58@dobbs:matrix.orgericEven better update on glitch. I've now got a wiki flag being generated automatically on the server-side. https://glitch.com/edit/#!/wiki-wiki?path=random-favicon.js:1:0
06:16:36@dobbs:matrix.orgeric Also, Ward, re: --save, I think node 10 must have made that the default behavior for npm install. When I was writing the random-favicon.js script on my laptop using a node 10 container, I found pngjs saved as a dependency even though I did not include the --save flag.
06:27:30@dobbs:matrix.orgericdaviding, would you mind kicking the tires on this. Curious to hear how you think your community would cope with it as is. https://glitch.com/edit/#!/wiki-wiki?path=README.md:1:0

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