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1 Apr 2020
16:42:29@Ward:matrix.orgWardI've invited the folks on the deno discord chat to attend our weekly call. https://discordapp.com/channels/684898665143206084/684898665151594506
16:44:50@Ward:matrix.orgWardThe "Seran" federation outpost is now two months old. We will reflect on its success and promise in our weekly dev/user video chat starting in 15 minutes. https://zoom.us/j/522573189
16:51:05@Ward:matrix.orgWardWe'll meet on hangout instead. https://hangouts.google.com/call/vh8qSgMVs-k-qOFdtwDAAAEI
17:01:27@Robert.Best:matrix.orgRobert.BestI can kick people out of the zoom space if there are troublemakers
17:47:01@nickniemeir:matrix.orgnickniemeirHey, tried to drop by the hangout but it was full 👋
17:49:08@dobbs:matrix.orgeric Hi nickniemeir, sorry we missed you.
17:50:23@petedaguru:matrix.orgpetedaguruI need to drop , try again to grab my spot
17:51:06@nickniemeir:matrix.orgnickniemeirThanks, I'm off to feed the kids! I'll catch you all next week
18:10:29@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesWard could you post that link again to the outposts page? I lost my hangout controls.
18:13:35@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales@erik great performance of Turtle Discovery live. Nerves of steel!
18:18:42@Ward:matrix.orgWardhttp://ward.asia.wiki.org/outpost-thinking.html
22:47:07@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales Naive Graphviz query . . In order to make this work, in the Graphviz plugin DOT FROM preview-next-diagram what do I need to have in place on that page? Or rather - where do I find the answer to this query? A Graphviz syntax guide, perhaps? I'm wanting to mimic the graph on Thompson 's page (for example) http://wellspring.fed.wiki/metanoietic-consciousness.html. The page where I haven't yet got the jigsaw puzzle pieces together is http://mhresources.federated.wiki/mh-graph-snippets.html
2 Apr 2020
02:29:41@dobbs:matrix.orgeric

mike_hales: If you fork this page into your wiki, the graphs should start working for you:
http://wellspring.fed.wiki/preview-next-diagram.html

You may notice a similarity between the name in that URL and the name in the graphviz plugin.... not a coincidence. What I actually did, though, was visit the page at Thompson 's site and search in the search box at the bottom of the page for "preview next" which turned up that page as a first result.

03:22:38@Ward:matrix.orgWard

The error message could be improved:

Cannot read property 'page' of null

But at best it could echo the slug of the missing page. That would make it more clear that a page is missing. Eric could, on the other hand, intuit what might have gone wrong and suggest a solution. Hurray for people.

12:23:52@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales

eric:

If you fork this page into your wiki, the graphs should start working for you

12:24:05@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesSo simple. Thanks
12:25:46@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesI was 100% unfamilar with Graphviz syntax/vocabulary.
14:20:09@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales *

eric:

If you fork this page into your wiki, the graphs should start working for you

14:21:53@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales

Ward:

Hurray for people.

People are quite handy to have around. They really can help handle all the trouble that happens because the world is full of people.

14:25:40@Ward:matrix.orgWard

We would be wise to take a moment to consider why something that should just work didn't work for Mike. We must admit that the DOT FROM slug markup is unusual in several ways. It has one page invisibly referring to another page creating an "action at a distance" effect. It also wants the remote page's slug not title, which is our norm. Although the plugin goes through some heroics to resolve the page by collaborative-link semantics, this would only work if the page were forked creating the resolution context necessary for the mechanism.

Here is the code in question: https://github.com/dobbs/wiki-plugin-graphviz/blob/6852686d54f12813813af01ada859911c90e2c55/client/graphviz.js#L18-L32

14:43:44@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompsonMike: I am happy to see that you are exploring these diagrams for your pages. I call them 'horizon diagrams' as Ward referred to them as diagrams that allow us to "see over the horizon". I consider them to be an important component for a page to feel whole. I see a page whole when it has three elements, each that feel right, feel true: the label, the essences and the context. This forms a page's 'trivium'. Does the name of the page create a label that hints to the meaning that I intend? Does the page succinctly explore the essence of that concept? And does that concept sit within the context of others, forming a pattern of meta-meaning for me and potentially for others? It is always magical when I finish a page and the diagram appears from the plugin, always with a surprise. This emergence challenges me, when I write, to appreciate that an idea that is vital is not simply a fragment, but when it is expressed in relationship to others, a part a greater meaning that is emergent. Life flows in patterns, as Alexander would say, revealing a truth.
14:48:10@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesYes I love the diagram, and what it does for the feel of a page. Puts it into a context of what-we-may-be-about-to-do. Thanks.
14:49:01@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesAnd yes, the whole Graphviz thing in wiki is ultra-important imo. I need to become very literate with it. In time ;-)
15:01:23@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompsonWard created DOT as a simple language that allows us to tap the power of Graphiz. I just started playing around with it for my purposes to communicate these pattern abstractions to others. How many levels should I go? What colors and widths should I use? I found that three levels worked well - my current page, where it linked and where those pages linked. More and the diagram was difficult to quickly decipher. Less, and I lost glimpses of emergent richness. I did play around with 'omniscience' where I graphed the entirety of a 100 page garden. It was interesting to see where there was clustering of concepts but it was too confusing to share with others. BTW, I love that the nodes in the diagrams are clickable as a nav device, a feature I suspect lost to many.
15:06:15@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompson * Mike: I am happy to see that you are exploring these diagrams for your pages. I call them 'horizon diagrams' as Ward referred to them as diagrams that allow us to "see over the horizon". I consider them to be an important component for a page to feel whole. I see a page whole when it has three elements, each that feel right, feel true: the label, the essences and the context. This forms a page's 'trivium'. Does the name of the page create a label that hints to the meaning that I intend? Does the page succinctly explore the essence of that concept? And does that concept sit within the context of others, forming a pattern of meta-meaning for me and potentially for others? It is always magical when I finish a page and the diagram appears from the plugin, always with a surprise. This emergence challenges me, when I write, to appreciate that an idea that is vital is not simply a fragment, but when it is expressed in relationship to others, a part a greater meaning that is emergent. Life flows in patterns, as Alexander would say, revealing a truth.
15:14:31@Ward:matrix.orgWardI should mention that Thompson is an early adopter of the Graphviz plugin having added an algorithmic diagram to every page. It was a big job so he was not happy when I suggested improvement to the markup. That's when I pulled out the old programmer trick of "action at a distance" rather than thinking through a better solution.
15:14:58@Ward:matrix.orgWard * I should mention that Thompson is an early adopter of the Graphviz plugin having added an algorithmic diagram to every page. It was a big job so he was not happy when I suggested improvement to the markup. That's when I pulled out the old programmer trick of "action at a distance" rather than thinking through a better solution.
15:16:12@Ward:matrix.orgWard(We try to be better than every other web development environment but we all feel the same forces.)
15:35:58@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompsonWhich, by the way, Ward, was a lifesaver. For the wiki, I wanted the diagrams to flow horizontally, but I needed them to all flow vertically for the images in the printed book. By just commenting out one line of code, I could flip the diagrams for all of the pages. After downloading the needed diagrams, I would just flip everything back to horizontal. Phew.
19:34:40@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompson * Which, by the way, Ward, was a lifesaver. For the wiki, I wanted the diagrams to flow horizontally, but I needed them to all flow vertically for the images in the printed book. By just commenting out one line of code, I could flip the diagrams for all of the pages. After downloading the needed diagrams, I would just flip everything back to horizontal. Phew.

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