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17 Sep 2020
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesJoplin has a clipper plugin for Firefox that works cleanly, and a viable DAV backup/sharing function that I use via NextCloud. So . . no proprietary software.17:14:03
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesJoplin uses MarkDown, and so easily beats Evernote with regard to formatting and re-usability of notes.17:14:07
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales
In reply to @Ward:matrix.org
For some communities wiki offers a doorway to be entered while for others it is just a hurdle to be jumped. Maybe the difference is what one expects to find on the other side? We'll chat about this and other dev/user news starting in 15 minutes. https://zoom.us/j/619897150?pwd=M1d3WjJYc2x3NEcwQnZyWDYwaHhsQT09
Sorry to miss yesterday. Was there any consensus emerging on what lies on the other side? Or on how that is changing right now, with all this developer creativity set loose at the present time?
17:17:38
@Ward:matrix.orgWardOne discussion revolved around the tradeoff: should we make it hard to make mistakes or easy to correct them? I personally favor the latter because we have routinely found unplanned sequences of operations to be useful or even amazing.18:07:45
@Ward:matrix.orgWardCase in point: authoring "in the yellow" on a site you don't own: click Local Changes, click Export Changes, drag downloaded footer tab to a site you own. New users don't know to look for this until told.18:12:14
@Ward:matrix.orgWardAnother case: forking from history causes a ghost page to become full white with no border while offering no visual indication that the original page no longer represents what is on the server being shared. Suggestion is that the now obsolete page should become a ghost. I agree.18:15:03
@wagle:matrix.orgwagle-matrixwild stab: hard to make common mistakes, easy to correct all mistakes18:43:11
@Ward:matrix.orgWardCan we agree upon what is and isn't a mistake with enough precision that it can be coded?18:50:44
@Ward:matrix.orgWardFor example, x = x + 1 looks pretty suspicious.18:51:25
@Ward:matrix.orgWardhttp://ward.fed.wiki.org/x--x--1.html18:55:24
@karol:synod.im@karol:synod.im left the room.20:14:28
19 Sep 2020
@marpie1:matrix.orgmarpie1I have become dependent (addicted?) on FedWiki as a way to think and write. Is there a way to use FedWiki privately? 20:24:38
@Ward:matrix.orgWardTwo ways. You can host a wiki on a private local area network or even your own laptop. Or, you can configure a server with login-to-view specific to an email address domain such as those of a school or company.22:27:29
@Ward:matrix.orgWardSee the requirements discussion: http://ward.asia.wiki.org/login-to-view.html22:32:35
20 Sep 2020
@Ward:matrix.orgWardI leave the house about once a week to bicycle around the neighborhoods. I look for little trails I might have missed when I had more important places to go. The leaflet/open street maps we use in federated wiki turned out to be much better at identifying the trails I had been seeking. This surprised me since google had worked at maps with such intensity and apple was catching up. Then I realized, there are no businesses on these trails so no reason for google or apple to be interested. http://trails.ward.asia.wiki.org/view/welcome-visitors/view/pandemic-wandering15:00:09
21 Sep 2020
@darkharmony9999:matrix.orgdarkharmony9999 joined the room.19:57:39
22 Sep 2020
@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompsonWe talk of the wiki as being, first and foremost, a thinking tool. Here is a video of Karl Friston talking about the three dimensions of cognition: embodied, enacted and extended. It's in the concept of extended cognition that we sense wiki's marvel. http://wellspring.fed.wiki/life-learning.html18:07:48
23 Sep 2020
@Ward:matrix.orgWardWow. Friston is awesome. This is a great followup to Lakoff: http://wiki.dbbs.co/embodiment-hypothesis.html04:14:39
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales
In reply to @thompson_morrison:matrix.org
We talk of the wiki as being, first and foremost, a thinking tool. Here is a video of Karl Friston talking about the three dimensions of cognition: embodied, enacted and extended. It's in the concept of extended cognition that we sense wiki's marvel.
http://wellspring.fed.wiki/life-learning.html
Great to have this, thanku 😃
15:04:23
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales The embodied aspect of interoception goes deeper than Friston speaks of, beyond 'gut feeling' for example, to modifications of intention and action. When we over-ride intuitive or habitual responses of 'the body' (ie preconscious processes) thro proceses of mindfulness, this reprograms 'the mind' (ie the brain-body) because 'what fires together, wires together'. Thus, changing our mind once (and repeatedly), changes the mind that we (preconsciously, habitually) bring to the next occasion. 15:04:41
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_halesOtherwise know as wisdom? Or not, as the case may be 😉15:04:43
@mike_hales:matrix.orgmike_hales * The embodied aspect of interoception goes deeper than Friston speaks of, beyond 'gut feeling' for example, to modifications of intention and action. When we over-ride intuitive or habitual responses of 'the body' (ie preconscious processes) thro proceses of mindfulness, this reprograms 'the mind' (ie the brain-body) because 'what fires together, wires together'. Thus, changing our mind once (and repeatedly), changes the mind that we (preconsciously, habitually) bring to the next occasion. 15:06:00
@thompson_morrison:matrix.orgThompsonYes, indeed. Practices such as cognitive therapy leverages this ability to rewire perception. But, I also agree, it goes much deeper than 'gut feeling' to the experience of transmutative moments that can have a profound impact how we experience the world. This truth lies at the core of the work that I am doing with educators as I lead them on one week DIG journeys to 'awaken wonder'. A personal truth emerges that they speak of as that which can't be unseen, can't be unfelt – an experience that I trace back to the 'climax' which Ward spoke of in Episodes and which Bohm saw emerging in a 'free space'. As a result of this experience, they are beginning to walk courageously into new experiments to reimagine education in their classrooms as they now seek to awaken the wonder of their students. 16:16:59
@Ward:matrix.orgWardWiki supports many workflows including some unique to our model of sharing. How do these align with underserved human capabilities? We'll video chat about this and other dev/user news starting in 15 minutes. https://hangouts.google.com/call/ciLTxaiml7YVZZ0csz9AAAEI16:42:20
25 Sep 2020
@Ward:matrix.orgWardI once set out to cooperatively build a large graph out of smaller detailed pages. My test case was the Hatfield-McCoy feud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud03:20:43
@Ward:matrix.orgWardMy strategy was to assemble the Hatfield family in one site and then merge it with the McCoy site where the two families interacted by marriage or killings. I was able to get this to work to some degree but Graph plugin I used could only do small fragments gracefully. I believe the new algorithmic drawing markup can read Graph plugin relations so I won't have to send this to the server to get composite renderings. But the recent advance that could really set this project moving would be if I could freeze a generation into one diagram and then use the same algorithmic drawing markup to assemble generations when done. I think this will challenge the whole notion of freezing in an interesting way. 03:27:23
@Ward:matrix.orgWardhttp://hatfield.asia.wiki.org03:27:49
@Ward:matrix.orgWardWhen I did this work four years ago the wikipedia page showed the genealogy of each family in tables. Someone has worked hard to draw this as a tree using the "tree template" which must be something neat. I'm still kind of proud of the drag and drop relation building that the Graph plugin supports. But I have to admit that wikipedia got trees done before I did.03:34:50
@Ward:matrix.orgWardThe feud is identified in wikidata but not with the family trees in machine readable form. Darn. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q63656903:44:06
27 Sep 2020
@marpie1:matrix.orgmarpie1What is the link for this mornings meeting?16:02:03

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