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27 Mar 2024
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalfAnd with that, the "right" to an answer dissolves with a side effect.22:52:35
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * One-to-many.is a perspective comparable to that of the distribution media. In my opinion, it gets exciting when something responds. And then we're back to the couple relationship. And this relationship is spatially unique, because although there are supposedly two (or more) "identical" pages (twins) in the line-up, they are in two (ore more) different places and are therefore not identical. Ward 23:41:12
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * One-to-many is a perspective comparable to that of the distribution media. In my opinion, it gets exciting when something responds. And then we're back to the couple relationship. And this relationship is spatially unique, because although there are supposedly two (or more) "identical" pages (twins) in the line-up, they are in two (ore more) different places and are therefore not identical. Ward 23:41:22
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * One-to-many is a perspective comparable to that of the distribution media. In my opinion, it gets exciting when something responds. And then we're back to the couple relationship. And this relationship is spatially unique, because although there are supposedly two (or more) "identical" virtual pages (twins) in the line-up, they are in two (ore more) different places and are therefore not identical. Ward 23:41:56
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf See Unit Programming Language 23:48:51
28 Mar 2024
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalfimage.png
Download image.png
00:02:20
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalffile:///private/var/folders/y1/yhhpj5wd7cb5325t8__1ct2r0000gn/T/mume2024228-2662-1nw6lq3.22e6.html00:02:43
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * https://github.com/samuelmtimbo/unit/raw/main/public/gif/0.gif00:03:46
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * https://github.com/samuelmtimbo/unit/blob/main/README.md00:04:38
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * One-to-many is a perspective comparable to that of a distribution media. In my opinion, it gets exciting when something responds. And then we're back to the couple relationship. And this relationship is spatially unique, because although there are supposedly two (or more) "identical" virtual pages (twins) in the line-up, they are in two (ore more) different places and are therefore not identical. Ward 08:53:33
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf
HTML5 mp4 http://localhost:3000/assets/pages/unit-programming-language/unit.mp4
09:11:59
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf *
HTML5 mp4 https://wiki.ralfbarkow.ch/assets/pages/unit-programming-language/unit.mp4
09:13:22
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * https://github.com/samuelmtimbo/unit/blob/main/README.md https://wiki.ralfbarkow.ch/assets/pages/unit-programming-language/unit.mp409:15:06
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf * merge sort (mp4, 4 seconds) 09:17:26
@bkil:matrix.orgbkilWhat makes a service "federated" in the first place? https://wiki.osm.org/Talk:Panoramax#Federation12:42:56
@simulo:matrix.orgjan dre: Yesterday’s presentation on the drag-drop behavior in the UI sketching app: I briefly mentioned that I currently use HTML instead of manually drawing elements with line/area primitives. Turns out that has interesting consequences for drag and drop: Dragged elements should always be in front of all other draggable elements during the drag. This is relatively easy for drawign elements on a pixel level (dragged element drawn after all the other elements), but before any overlays, but it is tricky with HTML or SVG, where the dragged element is already in a stack of elements that can overlap it. One can create a copy and place it in front of other elements, however, my current ideas are a bit messy, since I want just the representation, not any of the interactive parts of it! (maybe actually split away the rendering into a class implementing a "figure renderer" interface that gets the model data passed?)14:56:15
@simulo:matrix.orgjan d * re: Yesterday’s presentation on the drag-drop behavior in the UI sketching app: I briefly mentioned that I currently use HTML instead of manually drawing elements with line/area primitives. Turns out that has interesting consequences for drag and drop: Dragged elements should always be in front of all other draggable elements during the drag. This is relatively easy for drawing elements on a pixel level (dragged element drawn after all the other elements), but before any overlays, but it is tricky with HTML or SVG, where the dragged element is already in a stack of elements that can overlap it. One can create a copy and place it in front of other elements, however, my current ideas are a bit messy, since I want just the representation, not any of the interactive parts of it! (maybe actually split away the rendering into a class implementing a "figure renderer" interface that gets the model data passed?)17:42:03
@simulo:matrix.orgjan d * re: Yesterday’s presentation on the drag-drop behavior in the UI sketching app: I briefly mentioned that I currently use HTML instead of manually drawing elements with line/area primitives. Turns out that has interesting consequences for drag and drop: Dragged elements should always be in front of all other draggable elements during the drag. This is relatively easy for drawing elements on a pixel level (dragged element drawn after all the other elements), but before any overlays, but it is tricky with HTML or SVG, where the dragged element is already in a stack of elements that can overlap it. One can create a copy and place it in front of other elements, however, my current ideas are a bit messy, since I want just the visual representation, not any of the interactive parts of it! (maybe actually split away the rendering into a class implementing a "figure renderer" interface that gets the model data passed?)19:50:13
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf
In reply to @bkil:matrix.org
What makes a service "federated" in the first place? https://wiki.osm.org/Talk:Panoramax#Federation
Thanks. See Federation
20:38:07
@Ward:matrix.orgWardDoes federated wiki deserve to call itself "federated"? A primary goal a dozen years ago was to exhibit "wiki nature" with no centralized control. We do rely on DNS but have demonstrated that we can share numeric ip addresses by our own federation and thus bypass that central authority. We reject TLS for the same reasons. When I read of other schemes they all are struggling to find some robust form of push which is the only fast path to influence. I am suspicious of their motives. https://wiki.c2.com/?WikiNature http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/infected-with-roi.html23:49:13
29 Mar 2024
@bkil:matrix.orgbkilThe question is, how important is push? It does for IRC where the message turnaround is on the order of seconds (sometimes milliseconds on busy channels back in its golden ages). At the same time, delays of hours are acceptable on forums. On a documentation site, I don't see why subscribers would expect updates more than once a day, so polling would be just as good for all intents and purposes.07:34:47
@bkil:matrix.orgbkilI would add a twist to polling, though, to make it scale. Each peer should sign all of their entries (and indices) and mirror some or all entries on friendly (whihelisted or subscribed to) peers. Then readers and syncing peers could look up data through the swarm and not have to poll the origin as long as said content and indices are properly seeded. Incidentally, PeerTube had implemented automatic reseeding of friendly instances for a similar reason a few years ago. I don't view theirs a perfect architecture and regularly pick at it, but they got at least the basics right.07:36:46
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf Thanks, Federation page updated. You could do that yourself. 08:02:34
@rgb:dreyeck.freedombox.rocksRalf bkil: Re: push
In programming languages opening (push) and closing (pop) delimiters differentiate between processes that require memory and those that do not.
08:05:23
@bkil:matrix.orgbkilYep, reverse polish notation for the world.10:06:40
@bkil:matrix.orgbkilAnd indeed, the work in progress JS0 subset is also striking a balance to allow implementing a very simple and efficient buffer-free online interpreter. For a very straight-forward and rational gain in performance, loop start and function start locations are cached, but they could just as well be determined by backwards parsing and reparsing respectively if we wanted to. Also, as you have to add all parenthesis in expressions except for chains of the same operator (assumed to be associative and evaluated eagerly), it makes the content creator think a bit more about how evaluation will occur.10:10:42
@bkil:matrix.orgbkil* I would add a twist to polling, though, to make it scale. Each peer should sign all of their entries (and indices) and mirror some or all entries on friendly (whitelisted or subscribed to) peers. Then readers and syncing peers could look up data through the swarm and not have to poll the origin as long as said content and indices are properly seeded. Incidentally, PeerTube had implemented automatic reseeding of friendly instances for a similar reason a few years ago. I don't view theirs a perfect architecture and regularly pick at it, but they got at least the basics right.10:12:36
@jmeowmeow:matrix.orgJeff MillerHazel Weakly's post on how to best make sense of (and communicate that sense of) platform engineering struck me as very close to the domain where Thompson Morrison operates with Federated Wiki as a collaborative authoring platform. https://hachyderm.io/@hazelweakly/11217671738661173813:22:25
@Ward:matrix.orgWard
In reply to @jmeowmeow:matrix.org
Hazel Weakly's post on how to best make sense of (and communicate that sense of) platform engineering struck me as very close to the domain where Thompson Morrison operates with Federated Wiki as a collaborative authoring platform. https://hachyderm.io/@hazelweakly/112176717386611738

I offered this replay to the @hazelweakly post:

New Relic built an internal tool called Treasure Map. I worked on several successors, each with unique strengths and some weakness. The quest informs my current work labeled "future" in this history: Treasure Maps Remembered. https://mastodon.radio/@k9ox/112179430280770219

14:27:18
@Ward:matrix.orgWard
In reply to @bkil:matrix.org
The question is, how important is push? It does for IRC where the message turnaround is on the order of seconds (sometimes milliseconds on busy channels back in its golden ages). At the same time, delays of hours are acceptable on forums. On a documentation site, I don't see why subscribers would expect updates more than once a day, so polling would be just as good for all intents and purposes.
To the first order we might summarize: push for news, pull for literature.
14:29:29

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