| 15 Jun 2017 |
 ttk2 | It assumes the pretty normal mesh induction idea, if we enforce cooperation at node n and n+1 we wil enforce correct routing. | 11:45:14 |
| ttk2 | but in the face of monetary incentives, especially ones for specific routes I don't think that totally holds up. Just because you routed traffic doesn't mean you did it in the right direction. | 11:45:52 |
| ttk2 | without the two party verification model it's impossible to be really sure the traffic is going to the right place. | 11:46:09 |
| ttk2 | nothing for example stops nodes from advertising a route they can't complete and then forwarding traffic in a circle, this isn't a problem if you're trying to enforce cooperation, but it is if you're trying to enforce a payment based network where there is incentive to take money and toss the packet. | 11:47:45 |
 Jtremback | Yea, it's not a correct system I think | 14:37:24 |
| Jtremback | Anyway there's a report from netcommons.eu about "incentives in community networks" and this is one of many it cites. You should take a read through the different ones | 14:38:14 |
| ttk2 | I think the real key thought is that completing routes cost money, in other meshes if nodes pass traffic to any other hop it will still eventually be correct (if not efficient) but where nodes have an incentive to avoid specific directions (with most traffic wanting the more expensive routes just by supply and demand) we can't rely on that same sort of induction. | 14:57:40 |
| 16 Jun 2017 |
 @justn:matrix.org | Hey guys. I think I saw a white paper posted the other day. Sorry been lurking in background. Where is it located. | 01:42:06 |
| ttk2 | http://altheamesh.com/ | 01:43:46 |
| @justn:matrix.org | I work for one of the largest wisp in the us. I might be able to get involved once you have something for operators. I don't know how much I can help during this early stage. Ive been in the wisp world since ~2006 | 01:46:49 |
| ttk2 | We hope to have something workable by the end of the year. We will see how that goes. | 01:49:25 |
| ttk2 | I'm interested that this seems attractive to existing wisps? I mean ideally we would be increasing your accessible market but decreasing per unit profit. I'm not really sure how that looks on your end. I'm not familiar with wisp finances. | 01:50:30 |
| @justn:matrix.org | It isn't probably, but it is interesting to me personally. | 01:51:24 |
| ttk2 | I try and post updates in this channel so hang around. | 01:52:15 |
| @justn:matrix.org | I like the principle. | 01:52:28 |
| @justn:matrix.org | Thanks. I will. | 01:52:33 |
| @justn:matrix.org | I live in northern Colorado also, this might be a good area to try out. There is a power grid here that was mentioned by consensus that is using smart grids and testing crypto( eth I think) | 01:53:26 |
| ttk2 | 6 months ago I wasn't sure this was possible. Now after a lot of research my jtremback and I know it's possible and the question is the feasibility of a scale deployment and use by normal people. | 01:54:17 |
|  DAOWISP joined the room. | 06:00:27 |
| DAOWISP | Hi, seems I'm not the only one working along these lines! Pretty encouraging to see, as I've been plugging away at crypto-incentivized traffic flow at my WISP, but am not a developer. | 06:01:45 |
| DAOWISP | As a result, stitching together a data-exchange contract in Solidity has been going very slowly - this looks a LOT more straightforward. | 06:14:46 |
| ttk2 | I'm trying to envision how you would do this with only a solidity contract and I can't really imagine it. The fundamental innovation here is secured routing in a distance vector mesh which seems to have not been considered before. | 11:59:30 |
| Jtremback | DAOWISP: we need to work with someone who has real WISP experience | 15:39:46 |
| Jtremback | possibly yourself | 15:40:01 |
| Jtremback | also @justn:matrix.org | 15:41:03 |
| Jtremback | great to get some real world WISP ppl in here | 15:41:16 |
| Jtremback | I think that this could be attractive to existing WISPs, probably not all or most of them of course | 15:42:01 |
| Jtremback | from a WISP's perspective, this is basically a way that you can have billing and metering and even marketing taken care of for you. Allowing you to focus on connectivity | 15:43:01 |
| Jtremback | I don't know how far you guys have read into the white paper, but there are entities called "exit nodes" that take care of all NATting and legal aspects, DMCA etc. | 15:44:01 |
| Jtremback | these exit nodes could also possibly take care of billing and payments for customers who don't want to deal with cryptocurrencies themselves. | 15:44:46 |
