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Actually Autistic

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26 Mar 2021
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Great collection/summary! Well done! 😀 (Makes you realise just how ableist autism diagnosis has been for all this time in history... 🙄) You left out the first one, the original one, from Europe -- Hans Asperger's own diagnosis: Autistischen Psychopathen ("autistic psychopathy"), later adopting the simpler term Autismus ("autism") once he realised that autism was a natural occurrance and persists throughout a person's entire life span. Asperger was also the first to use the term "autistic individual". This was even before "childhood schizophrenia" if I remember correctly. And before Hans Asperger, Grunia Sukhareva coined the diagnosis of "schizoid personality disorder" -- this was likely where the idea of "childhood schizophrenia" came from in the West later (or using the same line of reasoning). Source: NeuroTribes by Steve Silberman (pages 97 and 98)11:47:18
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals. 12:17:44
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive.

12:20:01
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive. It's designed to be downgrading, to be pathologising, to be dehumanising.

12:21:07
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive. It's designed to be downgrading, to be pathologising natural human traits and behaviour, to be dehumanising.

12:22:19
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive. It's designed to be downgrading, to be pathologising natural human traits and behaviour, to be dehumanising.

We don't say "possibly offensive" for racist terminologies used. The very same should apply to ableism.

12:24:43
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive. It's designed to be downgrading, to be pathologising natural human traits and behaviour, to be dehumanising.

We don't say "possibly offensive" for racist terminologies used. The very same should apply to ableism. These are professionally used terms, but they are nonetheless ableist.

12:25:27
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org *

I find it funny how you say "possibly offensive language", izzy, seeing as practically all of it has been ableist and offensive professional terminology. Offensive to autistic people, not NT professionals.

It's not "possibly offensive", it's definitely offensive. It's designed to be downgrading, to be pathologising natural human traits and behaviour, to be dehumanising.

We don't say "possibly offensive" for racist terminologies used. The very same should apply to ableism. These are professionally used terms, but they are nonetheless ableist, and therefore offensive.

12:26:30
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casayou're right, i should change that14:08:45
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casai do find it interesting that you consider szpd to be a form of autism. Thats what i self-dxed with before i ever considered autism14:09:31
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaand im gonna add a note on asperger too14:09:48
@jez:petrichor.meJez (he/him)Writing About Talking About Communicating When Autistic https://neuroclastic.com/2020/04/06/writing-about-talking-about-communicating-when-autistic/ via @wallabagapp20:18:14
@jez:petrichor.meJez (he/him) I liked this article: I identified with his experience that, once you've done it once or twice, public speaking is actually easier than having a conversation with the same strangers. 20:19:33
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
i do find it interesting that you consider szpd to be a form of autism. Thats what i self-dxed with before i ever considered autism

It's the very first diagnosis ever made for autism. If you have a look at the Wikipedia description for it even today, it's practically describing autistic traits. The only part it gets really wrong is that despite some outwardly appearing similarities (to NTs), autism/SZPD has nothing to do with schizophrenia or STPD. What's happening inwardly is entirely different.

This is the first big realisation that Asperger came to -- that autism and schizophrenic conditions are NOT linked.

So despite its name, schizoid personality disorder has nothing to do with schizophrenia, actually -- and technically it's not a personality disorder, but a neurological functioning difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

22:39:25
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
i do find it interesting that you consider szpd to be a form of autism. Thats what i self-dxed with before i ever considered autism
*

It's the very first diagnosis ever made for autism. If you have a look at the Wikipedia description for it even today, it's practically describing autistic traits. The only part it gets really wrong is that despite some outwardly appearing similarities (to NTs), autism/SZPD has nothing to do with schizophrenia or STPD. What's happening inwardly is entirely different.

This is the first big realisation that Asperger came to -- that autism and schizophrenic conditions are NOT linked.

So despite its name, schizoid personality disorder has nothing to do with schizophrenia, actually -- and technically it's not a personality disorder, but a neurological functioning difference. It's actually a diagnosis of autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

22:40:55
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * It's the very first diagnosis ever made for autism. If you have a look at the Wikipedia description for it even today, it's practically describing autistic traits. The only part it gets really wrong is that despite some outwardly appearing similarities (to NTs), autism/SZPD has nothing to do with schizophrenia or STPD. What's happening inwardly is entirely different. This is the first big realisation that Asperger came to -- that autism and schizophrenic conditions are NOT linked. So despite its name, schizoid personality disorder has nothing to do with schizophrenia, actually -- and technically it's not a personality disorder, but a neurological functioning difference. It's actually a(n outdated) diagnosis of autism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder22:41:43
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaIt's a diagnosis that still exists, including in the most recent diagnostic manuals22:53:36
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaand many definitely consider it to be part of the schizo spectrum22:54:46
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
and im gonna add a note on asperger too

Had Asperger been allowed to continue his research (had the war never happened), the world would have a completely different, an unpathologised and accepting understanding of autism today. He was way ahead of any autism researcher not just of his time, but also of generations later. He had an exceptional insight and technique -- akin to genius, truly.

In reality, I'm pretty certain that he himself carried autistic traits, and that that's why he was able to relate so well with his patients and had that uncanny insight and meticulous, well-studied methods for research.

The more he tried to help his patients and researched autism, the more he realised that this is a natural occurrance and that his patients are not ill, but simply naturally different, and that many of them have been subjected to severe abuse by their family and society.

He started developing inclusive, autism-accepting methods for helping his patients deal with society and heal from their traumas. A healthy, inclusive, safe social environment for them to heal and grow in, and to which they were not forcibly tied to.

His clinic was more a safe learning-and-play-ground than an actual clinic by the experience of it, but behind it lay very-very high quality, humanitarian-focused research. Research that was genuinely focused on helping his patients healthily develop and grow according to their needs, without personal bias.

22:55:30
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casawhat id assume (but maybe im biased bc thats mostly based on my own personal experience) is that SzPD is a result of autism, rather than a form of autism itself Like, the emotional detachment could be bc of alexithymia or trauma The socil detachment a result of exclusion or social burnout22:57:01
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaehh that definitely sounds too positive abt asperger imo22:57:17
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaBut afaik autism doesnt cause social anhedonia or emotional detachment itself, or at least theyre not common traits22:59:33
@ijyx:matrix.orgmoved to ijyx:cat.casaill go to sleep now, but ill be back (and reply) tomorrow good night/ [insert daytime]23:00:32
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
ehh that definitely sounds too positive abt asperger imo
It's actually what happened. There's plenty of evidence supporting it. Read NeuroTribes and do your own research into his life and work. Despite how he has been slandered in the media lately, Asperger was NOT a bad man. He was a good human being, not without faults, but trying his best to do the right thing during a very-very difficult time in history and stuck on the wrong side.
23:00:40
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
and many definitely consider it to be part of the schizo spectrum

Yet it holds practically no relation in terms of origin and traits/characteristics with it... 🙄

The only reason it was invented in the first place because schizophrenia was the closest thing psychologists could put it to at the time, having no searate diagnosis for it.

23:04:36
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
and many definitely consider it to be part of the schizo spectrum
*

Yet it holds practically no relation in terms of origin and traits/characteristics with it... 🙄

The only reason it was invented in the first place because schizophrenia was the closest thing psychologists could put it to at the time, having no searate diagnosis for autism.

23:05:11
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
what id assume (but maybe im biased bc thats mostly based on my own personal experience) is that SzPD is a result of autism, rather than a form of autism itself

Like, the emotional detachment could be bc of alexithymia or trauma

The socil detachment a result of exclusion or social burnout
Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits, but less knowledge about their origins.
23:06:51
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
But afaik autism doesnt cause social anhedonia or emotional detachment itself, or at least theyre not common traits

Both of these are highly subjective and dependent on the person's environment. Autistics feel strongly emotionally attached and socially bonded in Autistic/neurodivergent circles. We have trouble relating to neurotypicals -- mostly because of an uninclusive, ableist culture they have.

If neurotypicals genuinely accepted autistic people for who we are and included us, we wouldn't feel this emotional distance.

23:10:57
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
what id assume (but maybe im biased bc thats mostly based on my own personal experience) is that SzPD is a result of autism, rather than a form of autism itself

Like, the emotional detachment could be bc of alexithymia or trauma

The socil detachment a result of exclusion or social burnout
* Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins.
23:15:25
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins. To be perfectly honest, it isn't a very useful diagnosis. I don't quite understand why people still use it today.23:16:34

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