In reply to Mason
For the ark of liberty, what do people think of aluminum vs fibreglass hulls?

In reply to Mason
For the ark of liberty, what do people think of aluminum vs fibreglass hulls?

In reply to Chris Troutner
I prefer fiberglass. Anyone who can fingerpaint, can do fiberglass repair.

In reply to AndrewP
So, just looking at costs of sheet materials, which would be a very large component of any boat I would build myself as a working class person with a very limited rate of accumulating financial savings:
1) a retailed 3 square metre sheet of 3mm aluminium is about £240,
2) 3 square metres of 6mm fibreglass (at a rough estimate of 10kg/square metre) is about £120
3) 3 square metres of 12mm marine plywood (my current 39 foot boat is built out of 9mm plywood) is about £45.

The plywood needs a layer of glass and epoxy, and fibreglass doesn't really require painting if you put gel coat on the outside, which tends to balance the cost a bit.

So from a cost of materials for hulls point of view the plywood works out significantly more affordable. I also did go with proper marine plywood in that estimate as opposed to softwood plywood with WBP glue, or exterior hardwood plywood with a grade 2 waterproof glue, both of which are about half again the price of the marine plywood.

Fibreglass and aluminium both have the advantage that they should be very low maintenance materials and they will probably have a resale value should you abandon the project or wish to sell the boat later, whereas plywood boats may end up getting chopped up or sold to defray rental expenses if you abandon a plywood boat project.

Because of the low resale value of a home made plywood boat, it also does not make sense to put expensive equipment on it, because it is just a waste of money.

And none of my material costs have anything to do with labour/time/factory/boatyard rental costs, which are all very large factors that comprise the majority of an average boat build.

One estimate I heard puts the hulls at normally about 1/3 of the cost of a boat, 1/3 is the propulsion and 1/3 is the fitout - just as very rough ballpark figures. In my case I would say that was a fair estimate of what it cost to get in the water.

In reply to AndrewP
There are numerous methods of designing and building flat panel fibreglass that use a single flat smooth table to laminate either small hand-liftable sheets (like plywood type of construction) or whole sides at a time.
There was one catamaran designer called Derek Kelsall who used to run workshops to teach people how to build the whole hull side of a foam/composite catamaran hull on a single flat workbench in a weekend or two.
I would say the ark of liberty is quite suitable for that type of construction if people would so choose.
But I am merely brainstorming here as part of the discussion.

In reply to Mason
Right. But do they know how to do it well with proper layering and alignment? I suppose you can always use the adage that quantity has a quality of its own but in a well designed and efficient boat technically it should have the mats in certain orientations.

In reply to Chris Troutner
Ya, it depends on the situation. If you're talking about a manufacturing environment, you can use whatever you want.

If you run aground or hit a reef or need to do some other emergency repairs, that's where fiberglass really shines. Everything needed can be contained in a shoebox, and everything can be repaired at room temperature with no special tools.

In reply to Mason
Is this a realistic scenario? If you pop a hole in your hull, how will you be able to repair it (unless it's above the waterline)?

In reply to Chris Troutner
I've dealt with this personally. A fellow islander had his boat drag anchor and wash ashore. He had a huge hole punched below the water line.

But he was able to wait for the tide to go out. Then he patched the hole with fiberglass, and was able to refloat once the tide came in.

That old sailor movie with Tom Hanks, the guy did the same thing. He had a hole below the water line. So he put a bunch of weight on one side of the boat to bring the hole above the water line, so that he could do an emergency repair.

In reply to Mason
Is this a realistic scenario? If you pop a hole in your hull, how will you be able to repair it (unless it's above the waterline)?

In reply to Andrew Mount
Ended the reign of monarchs over their people!

In reply to AJ Garnerin
Recommended reading: Democracy the God that failed

In reply to David Croisant 🏴
Anyone ever been to this? http://www.ephemerisle.org/index.php/Ephemerisle