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Timestamp Message
27 Mar 2020
11:47:40@cadair:cadair.comCadairOur deprecation policy being we must raise a dep warning in at least one LTS before a breaking change is made (for a given definition of breaking and where possible)
11:47:56@cadair:cadair.comCadairSometimes you just have to break stuff
11:49:09@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) I feel like from the way you've described it there is a subtle difference between this and semver. But I'm just not quite seeing it.
11:49:15@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) Why is that different to semver?
11:49:39@cadair:cadair.comCadairThe version number isn't used to indicate API changes
11:49:46@cadair:cadair.comCadairour deprecation policy is
11:50:14@cadair:cadair.comCadairwe can increment the major version number and actually not break anything
11:53:41@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) What is the motivation behind that?
11:54:24@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) Incrementing the major version without breaking anything I mean. To draw a new line in the sand in terms of support?
11:56:13@cadair:cadair.comCadairyeah
11:57:47@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) How do users know whether a new release is safe or not? Trial and error?
16:52:20@iguy:matrix.orgiguyWhy not use semver standard that everyone in world knows and understands?
16:54:13@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) Well that was the question which started the discussion. There are valid reasons why semver isn't perfect. Personally I think people should be disciplined and use semver, but that isn't always practical.
16:55:26@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) The discussion link that Cadair shared is an interesting read. I don't think I agree with it. But it's interesting to hear counterpoints.
16:56:54@cadair:cadair.comCadairdepending on what your package is I strongly disagree with "everyone knows and understands"
16:56:55@cadair:cadair.comCadairmost research scientists, do not and will not understand semver for example
16:57:06@cadair:cadair.comCadair * most research scientists, do not and will not understand semver for example
16:58:54@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) I agree with Cadair here. Many folks who write software are not software engineers. We can't expect them to be as disciplined with it.
16:59:32@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) Lots of code, like research code, doesn't need the same rigor as production code that a company would be built on.
16:59:46@cadair:cadair.comCadairI am more thinking use software like sunpy / astropy / mpl etc
17:00:09@cadair:cadair.comCadairthe closer you get to the end user (into more specalist libs) the less value semver adds
17:00:54@SolarDrew:matrix.orgSolarDrew (Old)
In reply to @_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.org
Lots of code, like research code, doesn't need the same rigor as production code that a company would be built on.
would be nice for research code to find a middle ground between "the same rigor as production code that a company would be built on" and no rigor whatsoever...
17:00:20@cadair:cadair.comCadair * the closer you get to the end user (into more specalist libs) the less value semver adds
17:01:34@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack)
In reply to@SolarDrew:matrix.org
would be nice for research code to find a middle ground between "the same rigor as production code that a company would be built on" and no rigor whatsoever...
Very much so!
17:02:00@SolarDrew:matrix.orgSolarDrew (Old)
In reply to @SolarDrew:matrix.org
would be nice for research code to find a middle ground between "the same rigor as production code that a company would be built on" and no rigor whatsoever...
present company excepted 😛
17:02:50@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) Personally I think if you provide software for others to depend on you take on the responsibility of providing stable and we'll engineered code. Providing a public API is a step change in how much rigor you need to put in.
17:04:36@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack) But again I think my thoughts here are a little biased.
17:06:50@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack)
In reply to@SolarDrew:matrix.org
present company excepted 😛
I think task and environment make a huge difference. If I'm building a package I behave very differently to when I'm doing some data analysis in a Jupyter notebook.
17:07:43@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.orgJacob Tomlinson (Slack)
In reply to@_slack_opsdroid_U5MK1BW83:matrix.org
I think task and environment make a huge difference. If I'm building a package I behave very differently to when I'm doing some data analysis in a Jupyter notebook.
I'm a zealot for strong software engineering practices. But I'm also terrible at version controlling my notebooks.
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