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17 Apr 2024
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)but ideally, the ids should be generated on the fly, and be repeatable upon multiple exports, for example17:13:27
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)without actually writing them to file17:13:34
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)(the main purpose is auto-generated ox-html/ox-icalendar anchors)17:14:02
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)some people not only want human-readable, repeatable ids, but also not clutter Org files with them17:14:27
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)gory details: https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87fsfutwin.fsf@localhost/17:15:36
@versality:matrix.org@versality:matrix.org left the room.20:18:53
18 Apr 2024
@c-alpha:matrix.orgc-alpha
In reply to @yantar92:matrix.org
some people not only want human-readable, repeatable ids, but also not clutter Org files with them

It seems there may perhaps be too many, too different use-cases (and thus requirements) to permit hoping for a one-solution-satisfies-most-users approach?
From the depths pf my associative, biological memory:

  • When authoring LaTeX, it is good practice to have something along the lines of \label{sec:mangled-headline-text}, i.e. a naming convention where the sec: prefix denotes a section (you'll guess what tab:, and fig: will most likely refer to), followed by a mangled form of the headline's text at the time of the label creation. The downside of this approach is that you may be changing the headline text as the document evolves. If it has diverged from the label too much, you might look into updatimgn the label, too. But that's a bit of work and error prone. So most of the time not happening. Thus, you sometimes end up making references to oddly named labels.
  • When authoring DITA (Darwin Information Type Architecture), the LaTeX naming convention approach described above is modified to, instead of the mangled text, use a random part (for example <concept id="concept_F544B5D5759746C2A199A99518FA1EAE">). Of course no human can remember these id values, and hence the editing UIs offer a completion which also presents part of the text content of the targeted element. Additionally, one can define per-project maps which translate speaking-to-humans link targets to globally unique identifiers (https://www.oxygenxml.com/dita/styleguide/Cross_Referencing/c_Indirection_with_keyref.html).

To my experience the DITA scheme works very well. But it requires an additonal step of processing (tranlsation using the map). OTOH, that sounds quite similar to the caching solution described in the email thread from 2022 you linked. Personally, I would not care about the links on the exported output, but about the links I see in my Org files only.

13:19:11
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)
In reply to @c-alpha:matrix.org

It seems there may perhaps be too many, too different use-cases (and thus requirements) to permit hoping for a one-solution-satisfies-most-users approach?
From the depths pf my associative, biological memory:

  • When authoring LaTeX, it is good practice to have something along the lines of \label{sec:mangled-headline-text}, i.e. a naming convention where the sec: prefix denotes a section (you'll guess what tab:, and fig: will most likely refer to), followed by a mangled form of the headline's text at the time of the label creation. The downside of this approach is that you may be changing the headline text as the document evolves. If it has diverged from the label too much, you might look into updatimgn the label, too. But that's a bit of work and error prone. So most of the time not happening. Thus, you sometimes end up making references to oddly named labels.
  • When authoring DITA (Darwin Information Type Architecture), the LaTeX naming convention approach described above is modified to, instead of the mangled text, use a random part (for example <concept id="concept_F544B5D5759746C2A199A99518FA1EAE">). Of course no human can remember these id values, and hence the editing UIs offer a completion which also presents part of the text content of the targeted element. Additionally, one can define per-project maps which translate speaking-to-humans link targets to globally unique identifiers (https://www.oxygenxml.com/dita/styleguide/Cross_Referencing/c_Indirection_with_keyref.html).

To my experience the DITA scheme works very well. But it requires an additonal step of processing (tranlsation using the map). OTOH, that sounds quite similar to the caching solution described in the email thread from 2022 you linked. Personally, I would not care about the links on the exported output, but about the links I see in my Org files only.

for latex, this convention is already obeyed by ox-latex (org-latex--label) Output anchor names are important in html export where people often put these anchors as #anchor to urls
16:10:24
@c-alpha:matrix.orgc-alpha @[yantar92 (Org contributor)] ah, hadn't thought about long-lived linsk to the exported stuff; good point 16:11:37
19 Apr 2024
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth joined the room.08:52:42
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth

Hi, everyone. While I have been org mode user for some years, I wasn't really active in community, until now. First of all thanks for all the great work the community did so far 🀩.

I hope this is the right channel, if not please help me to direct my question to the more appropriate channel. Thanks in advance.

I am experimenting with the updated overhaul of latex_preview package while being on the Macbook, and I am having issue when org files are located on the iCloud drive. It seems the path of the files are the issue here, namely it complains that it cannot find file /Users/{username}/Library/Mobile Documents/com~. I suppose the issue lies in some path resolution logic together with Apple's decision it smart to use ~ in the path of iCloud πŸ™ˆ, which I tried to workaround unsuccessfully. Any help would be much appreciated.

09:02:20
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)
In reply to @urban_syth:matrix.org

Hi, everyone. While I have been org mode user for some years, I wasn't really active in community, until now. First of all thanks for all the great work the community did so far 🀩.

I hope this is the right channel, if not please help me to direct my question to the more appropriate channel. Thanks in advance.

I am experimenting with the updated overhaul of latex_preview package while being on the Macbook, and I am having issue when org files are located on the iCloud drive. It seems the path of the files are the issue here, namely it complains that it cannot find file /Users/{username}/Library/Mobile Documents/com~. I suppose the issue lies in some path resolution logic together with Apple's decision it smart to use ~ in the path of iCloud πŸ™ˆ, which I tried to workaround unsuccessfully. Any help would be much appreciated.

karthink:
09:11:49
@tecosaur:matrix.orgtecosaur urban_syth: if you're seeing an error, do you think you could get us a backtrace? 09:19:54
@psionic-lights:matrix.orgpsionic-lightsJust about done with the foundation for an org tree slide re-write. It will now have support for doing basically anything that Emacs can do and scripting it in org mode.12:43:43
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth

Hey tecosaur , thanks for your reply, while I did enable toggle-debug-on-error I only get error in *Org Preview LaTeX Output* buffer from pdfTeX. Nothing in *Backtrace* buffer. How would be best to forward you that? Just paste it here?

I did get this Creating LaTeX preview images failed (exit code 252). Please see *Org Preview LaTeX Output* for details in Message buffer. Hope this helps.

12:52:59
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth set a profile picture.12:55:44
@tecosaur:matrix.orgtecosaur urban_syth and us the "it complains that it can't find the file…" you mentioned from the LaTeX log in that buffer? 13:01:12
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth

Hey tecosaur indeed. The full error is of the form

This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.26 (TeX Live 2024) (preloaded format=/Users/.../.config/emacs/.local/cache/org/persist/29/cd936b-395e-46db-a42a-8d83c7af93cd-10106eb5521c6e478270dbe1e0699f47)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
! I can't find file `"/Users/.../Library/Mobile Documents/com"'.
<to be read again> 
                   \protect 
<*> ...rs/urbanavsec/Library/Mobile Documents/com~
                                                  apple~CloudDocs/Cortex/org...

(Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit)
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<to be read again> 
                   \protect 
<*> ...rs/.../Library/Mobile Documents/com~
                                                  apple~CloudDocs/Cortex/org...

No pages of output.
Transcript written on /var/folders/tl/m1m3_67x4pg92kpxrzybx62r0000gn/T//texput.
log.
13:06:35
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth *

Hey tecosaur indeed. The full error is of the form

This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.26 (TeX Live 2024) (preloaded format=/Users/.../.config/emacs/.local/cache/org/persist/29/cd936b-395e-46db-a42a-8d83c7af93cd-10106eb5521c6e478270dbe1e0699f47)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
! I can't find file `"/Users/.../Library/Mobile Documents/com"'.
<to be read again> 
                   \protect 
<*> ...rs/.../Library/Mobile Documents/com~
                                                  apple~CloudDocs/Cortex/org...

(Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit)
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<to be read again> 
                   \protect 
<*> ...rs/.../Library/Mobile Documents/com~
                                                  apple~CloudDocs/Cortex/org...

No pages of output.
Transcript written on /var/folders/tl/m1m3_67x4pg92kpxrzybx62r0000gn/T//texput.
log.
13:07:35
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth I can confirm that old latex-preview did work on files in iCloud, and the new one does work if file is placed on my desktop for example. 13:08:29
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_sythWhich hints to me some issue with how paths are handled when pdfTeX is invoked... Tried investigating it.. but my elisp is still very weak. 13:10:27
@c-alpha:matrix.orgc-alpha @urban_syth: What happens if you process a LaTeX file on an iCloud drive from the command line? Same error? 13:12:11
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth c-alpha: just running pdflatex on a manually created file on iCloud folder works just fine. Also tested compiling an org file on icloud using M-x org-latex-export-to-pdf which also works fine 13:31:30
@c-alpha:matrix.orgc-alpha @urban_syth: Ok, so it seems the issue is linked to the temporary files being created for rendering the preview. Not being a user of LaTeX Preview myself, did you discover any customization options for controlling where those temp files are created? Can you move that location away from iCloud to a local directory? 14:01:24
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth Thanks c-alpha I agree. I found only two variables that I seem to be able to set as part of org-latex-preview-* which are both already set on the local path. I will wait for karthink and tecosaur for now. Thanks for all the help. 14:12:03
@c-alpha:matrix.orgc-alphaπŸ‘14:13:57
20 Apr 2024
@urban_syth:matrix.orgurban_syth Hey again, based on c-alpha suggestions I have reimplemented org-latex-preview--create-tex-file function. Making latex rendering working fine on iCloud folder by generating the temporary tex file on local drive. karthink tecosaur would be possible to provide some configuration for https://code.tecosaur.net/tec/org-mode/src/branch/dev/lisp/org-latex-preview.el#L2294? 13:07:35
@yantar92:matrix.orgyantar92 (Org contributor)
In reply to @urban_syth:matrix.org
Hey again, based on c-alpha suggestions I have reimplemented org-latex-preview--create-tex-file function. Making latex rendering working fine on iCloud folder by generating the temporary tex file on local drive. karthink tecosaur would be possible to provide some configuration for https://code.tecosaur.net/tec/org-mode/src/branch/dev/lisp/org-latex-preview.el#L2294?
we should ideally make use of temporary-file-directory function. This function honours file name handler that allows custom per-directory handler
15:47:04
21 Apr 2024
@psionic-lights:matrix.orgpsionic-lightsDownload tree-slide-preview.mkv00:48:11
@psionic-lights:matrix.orgpsionic-lightsOnly a few more little fixups remain. The implementation is generic for basically integrating anything in Emacs into a forward-backward interface for presentation.00:49:35

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