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SenderMessageTime
20 Jan 2021
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthAlso, dotnet had something similar, where VM could load different programs into same process and provide isolation by itself13:38:50
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthThey killed it in Core13:38:58
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifth
In reply to @artifth:feneas.org
Also, dotnet had something similar, where VM could load different programs into same process and provide isolation by itself
It also could isolate assembly from doing any system access, thus allowing safe execution of untrusted code
13:42:23
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthhttps://stackoverflow.com/questions/1094478/what-is-a-net-application-domain13:43:50
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthWonder how computing world would look had MS not failed implementing original COM+/.NET vision 13:44:43
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)
In reply to @artifth:feneas.org
Good luck fighting VM escape bugs
For embedded it's not as bad as long as you avoid RCE bugs
13:48:03
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthI'm thinking general computing13:49:39
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifthLike Android, but with kernel-level Dalvik13:50:00
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)yeah... there it might not be as nice13:50:28
* @tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara) finds it amusing that MS has at one point tried all of the nice things but failed to implement them properly ending in someone else picking it up 10-20 years later18:09:37
@informer:privacytools.ioinformerhttps://www.jsof-tech.com/disclosures/dnspooq/18:33:18
@informer:privacytools.ioinformerhmm is there any way to check if my router uses dnsmasq?18:54:23
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifth
In reply to @tauoverpi:feneas.org
finds it amusing that MS has at one point tried all of the nice things but failed to implement them properly ending in someone else picking it up 10-20 years later
Welp, judging by their financial reports, half-assing through nice ideas seems to work well
20:28:04
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifth
In reply to @tauoverpi:feneas.org
this also allows for multi-tasking while compiling in points which call out to the VM every now and again (yes, it's effectively syscalls but without the expensive context switches)
Could we, in theory, implement such VM using native x86 instruction set as a byte code? We'll need some kind of x86 to x86 JIT that would rewrite all memory access instructions
22:57:05
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara) You could though it'd be rather difficult 22:59:44
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara) not with PIE though 23:00:04
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara) * You could though it'd be rather difficult 23:01:15
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara) * not with PIE though 23:01:24
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)This isn't that difficult now that I think of it23:01:40
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)the main issue is the size of it23:01:48
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)you'd also need to emit bounds checks23:03:01
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifth
In reply to @tauoverpi:feneas.org
For embedded it's not as bad as long as you avoid RCE bugs
Also VMS for embedded that kinda do this already exists. Stuff like micropython or dotnet nanoframework
23:10:41
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)yes but they're language bound 23:14:36
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)and the languages tend to suck23:14:41
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)https://metacall.io/23:16:12
@artifth:feneas.orgArtifth
In reply to @tauoverpi:feneas.org
yes but they're language bound
Well, need to make one for WASM. It seems to be targeted by many languages nowadays
23:20:00
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)There are a few attempts23:20:30
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)there's also eWasm which targets embedded23:20:40
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)though (afaik) it's just for one application23:21:16
@tauoverpi:feneas.orgLevy (Elara)
In reply to @artifth:feneas.org
Well, need to make one for WASM. It seems to be targeted by many languages nowadays
with support for WASI or some form of it
23:21:37

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