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1 Aug 2021
@search_social:matrix.orgsearch_socialyou're not stuck in 150 char twitter box06:09:13
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenI am gonna spin up my own06:10:12
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenWell, I already have actually but I'm gonna move it to a different url06:10:27
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenSo I haven't used it yet06:10:34
@erkp:matrix.orgpatched
In reply to @search_social:matrix.org
There is only one person that cares about my safety, and that is me.
Isn't the issue then that the country is ruled by the oligarchs, and not the workers? The ones in power don't care about your safety
10:52:03
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedIssue with having no laws is that you will just end up with a few giant monopolies who will just reinstate the state in their own interest, but undemocratically. I'd rather have a bourgeois democracy than a bourgeois dictatorship. If they didn't do so, the workers would likely just expropriate all the businesses from the owners. The owners need the state to protect themselves against this, which is why it would just grow back. In the end, the state is a tool for repression, and capital owners need to repress the workers to stay in power.10:57:51
@erkp:matrix.orgpatched * Issue with having no laws is that you will just end up with a few giant monopolies who will just reinstate the state in their own interest, but undemocratically. I'd rather have a bourgeois democracy than a bourgeois dictatorship. If they didn't do so, the workers would likely just expropriate all the businesses from the owners. The owners need the state to protect themselves against this, which is why it would just grow back. In the end, the state is a tool for repression, and capital owners need to repress the workers to stay in power.10:58:21
@search_social:matrix.orgsearch_social
In reply to @erkp:matrix.org
Isn't the issue then that the country is ruled by the oligarchs, and not the workers? The ones in power don't care about your safety
I, personally, care more about my safety than another worker 1,000 miles away. I'm not saying the other worker would actively sabotage my safety, but they wouldn't go the extra mile for me either.
11:17:12
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedYou two have a common interest in better working conditions. If you two were to choose the laws, you would both pick the ones leading to better working conditions. The point is that your employer would not do that, as it is not in his interest.11:19:23
@search_social:matrix.orgsearch_social
In reply to @erkp:matrix.org
You two have a common interest in better working conditions. If you two were to choose the laws, you would both pick the ones leading to better working conditions. The point is that your employer would not do that, as it is not in his interest.
I think the issue here is confusing the law with lawyers. The law is only what a lawyer says it is, and it is not in a lawyer's interest to protect workers either
12:02:29
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedIf the enforcement of workers laws aren't upheld, that is a separate issue that would have to be tackled. But yes, the current state works in the favor of the ruling class, and so they will fight the workers at every turn. That is why the workers need to also build their own separate administration, and not rely on the current one.12:10:51
@erkp:matrix.orgpatched * If the enforcement of workers laws aren't upheld, that is a separate issue that would have to be tackled. But yes, the current state works in the favor of the ruling class, and so they will fight the workers at every turn. That is why the workers need to also build their own separate administration, and not rely on the current one.12:11:07
@search_social:matrix.orgsearch_socialI'm all for parallel institutions12:56:16
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenI think we just need to reform from within 15:50:01
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedOr both :^)15:55:06
@erkp:matrix.orgpatcheddual power15:55:32
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenI don't get it16:05:50
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenAre you saying there should be labor unions or two governments16:06:02
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedThat we need to work to gain power both from inside and outside the system16:14:23
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedThe goal would be to replace the current state, but to do that we need experience in administering ourselves, which we e.g. can gain through labor unions. To be able to replace the current state we also need some semblance of control over the old state apparatus too.16:16:47
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenI don't know how to get there. I hate the Central Bank.16:22:35
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenAnd all the international financial bodies, really16:22:46
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenAnd the stock market16:22:51
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy Netizen... and pretty much everything I don't understand 16:23:02
@node-spaghetti:matrix.orgTrustworthy NetizenLol16:23:04
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedOne simple way is to support any movement or organization that is run by people who share your interest. E.g., the People's Party, or things like the recent M4M4A marches. If you face eviction, maybe join a tenants' union.17:34:14
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedBut there's no straightforward path17:34:36
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedReading theory may help too in gaining better understanding. I prefer doing it in reading circles to force myself to actually read.17:36:04
@erkp:matrix.orgpatchedShilling Free Software everywhere is also important ;^)17:37:42
@erkp:matrix.orgpatched* Reading theory may help too in gaining better understanding. I prefer doing it in reading circles to force myself to actually read.17:38:42

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