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Yggdrasil

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Experimental end-to-end encrypted IPv6 overlay network — https://yggdrasil-network.github.io — https://github.com/yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-go — English language only, off-topic → #yggdrasil-community:matrix.org268 Servers

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24 Aug 2021
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceantheres gotta be some changes around here18:42:11
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanand not just ethernet18:42:14
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceantake over the 2.4 and 5 ghz bands18:42:24
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexanderThere aren’t all that many reasons why Yggdrasil couldn’t be made to work at the Ethernet layer instead (the main reason would be that we’d just need to do better at enforcing ordering of protocol messages, same true of UDP)19:23:13
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexander* There aren’t all that many reasons why Yggdrasil couldn’t be made to work at the Ethernet layer instead of TCP peerings (the main reason would be that we’d just need to do better at enforcing ordering of protocol messages, same true of UDP)19:23:32
@tomz:matrix.orgtomzIdeally you also avoid Ethernet.19:44:09
@tomz:matrix.orgtomzbut thats hardware level, so that's a bit of a pipe-dream. So at least avoid inter-mixing dependencies so some new gen devices could simply run only ygg-over-[whatever], and you're set for the future19:45:29
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanjust installed and configured ygg on windows20:21:20
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanbut20:21:27
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceancant resolve ygg ips20:22:35
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanor domains20:22:38
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanthe site might just be down, but idk20:22:47
@owocean:seapunk.xyzowoceanyeah sorry it was just that site20:24:30
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexander
In reply to @tomz:matrix.org
Ideally you also avoid Ethernet.
I guess at least if you still support ethernet rather than replacing that too, you don’t need to throw away all of the world’s switching equipment
20:37:24
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexanderAlso it is rather nice to see the v0.4 network over 1700 nodes20:38:26
25 Aug 2021
@Artea:libera.chatArtea joined the room.00:52:41
@mydickisabrick:anontier.nlϟϟmycockisarockϟϟ joined the room.01:40:52
@mydickisabrick:anontier.nlϟϟmycockisarockϟϟJust found out you have a matrix room 01:42:55
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404hi, I have a (possibly noob) question: Yggdrasil is mostly a layer 3 protocol, right? Is there any particular reason it peers over TCP and not also UDP? IP doesn't care about packet loss either, so wouldn't UDP fit better? If we have a Setup like TCP-over-yggdrasil-over-TCP, wouldn't that somehow "amplify" the traffic? For me something like that just looks like "doing the same logic twice", but I'm not a professional, so idk really08:32:05
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexander hxr404: At the moment Yggdrasil's protocol messages are sensitive to ordering and packet loss, hence using TCP for peerings. In practice TCP-over-TCP amplification doesn't happen much with Ygg that we have really seen, probably in part due to the huge MTUs that we support 08:34:19
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexander(It's also worth mentioning we probably won't use TCP forever, but it's easier to solve the actual routing algorithm problems first before worrying about implementation-specific details later)08:36:14
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404oh I see, makes sense. thanks for the reply08:36:47
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404
In reply to @neilalexander:matrix.org
(It's also worth mentioning we probably won't use TCP forever, but it's easier to solve the actual routing algorithm problems first before worrying about implementation-specific details later)
So Implementing more lower-level transports isn't possible that easily rn? (e.g. Ethernet)
08:37:55
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexanderNot easily at the moment, we'd have to spend some time making the protocol less sensitive to ordering and drops first08:38:22
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404Is there any ETA? I think more transports are essential for a greater adoption of yggdrasil08:38:52
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404For example a www:// transport that automatically chooses whether to use UDP or TCP or a obfs4:// transport which is basically obfuscated www:// (This could for example get I2P users to use yggdrasil as a base)08:41:07
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404 * For example a www:// transport that automatically chooses whether to use UDP or TCP or a obfs4:// transport which is basically obfuscated www:// (This could for example get I2P users to use yggdrasil as a base) There is so much cool stuff that could be done with yggdrasil...08:42:06
@hxr404:matrix.orghxr404btw. Thanks for the great work! Do you accept Donations?08:42:34
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexanderWe don’t have an ETA, but I also don’t believe using TCP for peering transports are a big barrier to adoption08:54:43
@neilalexander:matrix.orgneilalexander Also we don’t have a means of accepting donations at the moment 08:54:50

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