24 Aug 2021 |
owocean | theres gotta be some changes around here | 18:42:11 |
owocean | and not just ethernet | 18:42:14 |
owocean | take over the 2.4 and 5 ghz bands | 18:42:24 |
neilalexander | There aren’t all that many reasons why Yggdrasil couldn’t be made to work at the Ethernet layer instead (the main reason would be that we’d just need to do better at enforcing ordering of protocol messages, same true of UDP) | 19:23:13 |
neilalexander | * There aren’t all that many reasons why Yggdrasil couldn’t be made to work at the Ethernet layer instead of TCP peerings (the main reason would be that we’d just need to do better at enforcing ordering of protocol messages, same true of UDP) | 19:23:32 |
tomz | Ideally you also avoid Ethernet. | 19:44:09 |
tomz | but thats hardware level, so that's a bit of a pipe-dream. So at least avoid inter-mixing dependencies so some new gen devices could simply run only ygg-over-[whatever], and you're set for the future | 19:45:29 |
owocean | just installed and configured ygg on windows | 20:21:20 |
owocean | but | 20:21:27 |
owocean | cant resolve ygg ips | 20:22:35 |
owocean | or domains | 20:22:38 |
owocean | the site might just be down, but idk | 20:22:47 |
owocean | yeah sorry it was just that site | 20:24:30 |
neilalexander | In reply to @tomz:matrix.org Ideally you also avoid Ethernet. I guess at least if you still support ethernet rather than replacing that too, you don’t need to throw away all of the world’s switching equipment | 20:37:24 |
neilalexander | Also it is rather nice to see the v0.4 network over 1700 nodes | 20:38:26 |
25 Aug 2021 |
| Artea joined the room. | 00:52:41 |
| ϟϟmycockisarockϟϟ joined the room. | 01:40:52 |
ϟϟmycockisarockϟϟ | Just found out you have a matrix room | 01:42:55 |
hxr404 | hi,
I have a (possibly noob) question:
Yggdrasil is mostly a layer 3 protocol, right? Is there any particular reason it peers over TCP and not also UDP?
IP doesn't care about packet loss either, so wouldn't UDP fit better?
If we have a Setup like TCP-over-yggdrasil-over-TCP, wouldn't that somehow "amplify" the traffic?
For me something like that just looks like "doing the same logic twice", but I'm not a professional, so idk really | 08:32:05 |
neilalexander | hxr404: At the moment Yggdrasil's protocol messages are sensitive to ordering and packet loss, hence using TCP for peerings. In practice TCP-over-TCP amplification doesn't happen much with Ygg that we have really seen, probably in part due to the huge MTUs that we support | 08:34:19 |
neilalexander | (It's also worth mentioning we probably won't use TCP forever, but it's easier to solve the actual routing algorithm problems first before worrying about implementation-specific details later) | 08:36:14 |
hxr404 | oh I see, makes sense.
thanks for the reply | 08:36:47 |
hxr404 | In reply to @neilalexander:matrix.org (It's also worth mentioning we probably won't use TCP forever, but it's easier to solve the actual routing algorithm problems first before worrying about implementation-specific details later) So Implementing more lower-level transports isn't possible that easily rn? (e.g. Ethernet) | 08:37:55 |
neilalexander | Not easily at the moment, we'd have to spend some time making the protocol less sensitive to ordering and drops first | 08:38:22 |
hxr404 | Is there any ETA?
I think more transports are essential for a greater adoption of yggdrasil | 08:38:52 |
hxr404 | For example a www:// transport that automatically chooses whether to use UDP or TCP
or a obfs4:// transport which is basically obfuscated www:// (This could for example get I2P users to use yggdrasil as a base) | 08:41:07 |
hxr404 | * For example a www:// transport that automatically chooses whether to use UDP or TCP
or a obfs4:// transport which is basically obfuscated www:// (This could for example get I2P users to use yggdrasil as a base)
There is so much cool stuff that could be done with yggdrasil... | 08:42:06 |
hxr404 | btw. Thanks for the great work!
Do you accept Donations? | 08:42:34 |
neilalexander | We don’t have an ETA, but I also don’t believe using TCP for peering transports are a big barrier to adoption | 08:54:43 |
neilalexander | Also we don’t have a means of accepting donations at the moment | 08:54:50 |