| 2 Dec 2023 |
 plein | *
you end up in a war of attrition where you pay ISPs to look the other way
what. I assume it's not the case in china.
| 17:02:00 |
| plein | *
you end up in a war of attrition where you pay ISPs to look the other way
what. I assume it's not the case in china. (maybe on a small scale)
| 17:04:04 |
| 3 Dec 2023 |
|  interfect joined the room. | 02:07:32 |
|  WAR10CK joined the room. | 04:29:16 |
| WAR10CK set a profile picture. | 04:38:09 |
| WAR10CK changed their profile picture. | 04:50:43 |
 vegabook | Nix packages is still on 0.5.2: https://search.nixos.org/packages?channel=unstable&from=0&size=50&sort=relevance&type=packages&query=yggdrasil | 09:52:18 |
| vegabook | is it a Very Big Deal if we run nodes on that version still waiting for 0.5.4 to get built for Nix (usually takes about a week to 10 days by my estimation). | 09:52:54 |
| vegabook | * Nix packages is still on 0.5.2: https://search.nixos.org/packages?channel=unstable&show=yggdrasil&from=0&size=50&sort=relevance&type=packages&query=yggdrasil | 09:54:45 |
| vegabook | * is it a Very Big Deal if we run nodes on that version still waiting for 0.5.4 to get built for Nix? (usually takes about a week to 10 days by my estimation). | 09:55:31 |
 neilalexander | In reply to @vegabook:matrix.org
is it a Very Big Deal if we run nodes on that version still waiting for 0.5.4 to get built for Nix? (usually takes about a week to 10 days by my estimation). It's not a huge deal, they are protocol-compatible, but there are some nasty crashes fixed in 0.5.3 and 0.5.4 | 10:16:07 |
| neilalexander | In reply to @snowflake:mozilla.org
There is a question as to whether Yggdrasil has considered censorship resistance. In the future, all public peers of Yggdrasil may be blocked by the GFW. And its packet characteristics may be more obvious. There are cases where people have successfully used Yggdrasil to get around country-level filtering but it's a nice side-effect more than anything and not somewhere we will be spending time/effort | 10:18:36 |
| neilalexander | In reply to @vegabook:matrix.org
is it a Very Big Deal if we run nodes on that version still waiting for 0.5.4 to get built for Nix? (usually takes about a week to 10 days by my estimation). * It's not a huge deal, they are protocol-compatible, but there are some nasty crashes fixed in 0.5.3 and 0.5.4, so I'd be recommending to anyone to run the latest if possible | 10:20:13 |
 Salem Yaslem سالم يسلم | In reply to @snowflake:mozilla.org
There is a question as to whether Yggdrasil has considered censorship resistance. In the future, all public peers of Yggdrasil may be blocked by the GFW. And its packet characteristics may be more obvious. they can use Greentunnel instead of Yggdrasil
| 10:29:10 |
 Arun | Is there any way to set name/hostname of devices when using yggdrasil like in netbird? | 12:02:04 |
 Aminda.eu ⚧ | I don't know netbird, but you can set a "name": "meow: in nodeinfo: {} | 13:00:45 |
| plein | In reply to @xlmnxp:matrix.org
they can use Greentunnel instead of Yggdrasil
never heard of it. | 13:02:57 |
 majestrate | In reply to @arun_:matrix.org
Is there any way to set name/hostname of devices when using yggdrasil like in netbird? your own authorative nameserver? | 14:16:34 |
| majestrate | In reply to @planetoryd:matrix.org
you end up in a war of attrition where you pay ISPs to look the other way
what
that is what it has come to in many other places so i would not be shocked if china has that too. all of it outside the scope of routing protocols. | 14:19:10 |
| plein | In reply to @majestrate:matrix.org
that is what it has come to in many other places so i would not be shocked if china has that too. all of it outside the scope of routing protocols. I believe geph does not bribe chinese ISPs. It seems to get bridges through CDNs though. It's possible that the market does the bribery for you. Other censor-evasion providers have servers in china acting as the first hop but geph doesn't. | 14:50:49 |
| plein | and in chinese culture, we have the unspoken rule / idiom of "deceiving the higher-ups and subordinates". | 14:54:03 |
| plein | * and in chinese culture, we have the unspoken rule / idiom of "deceiving the higher-ups and subordinates". (not an approval but as a fact, nothing more | 14:56:57 |
| plein | In reply to @majestrate:matrix.org
that is what it has come to in many other places so i would not be shocked if china has that too. all of it outside the scope of routing protocols. * I believe geph does not bribe chinese ISPs. It seems to get bridges through CDNs though. It's possible that the market does the bribery for you. Other censor-evasion providers have servers in china acting as the first hop but geph doesn't.
So my overall impression is that geph actually continues the arms race. | 14:59:33 |
|  @anarutam:matrix.org left the room. | 16:13:15 |
| majestrate | In reply to @planetoryd:matrix.org
I believe geph does not bribe chinese ISPs. It seems to get bridges through CDNs though. It's possible that the market does the bribery for you. Other censor-evasion providers have servers in china acting as the first hop but geph doesn't. either way, it's outside the scope of routing protocols, it's an implementation detail of the node to node protocol which is akin to congestion control. | 16:28:14 |
| majestrate | as someone who fought that war, just know whoever has more funding wins. it has almost nothing to do with the technology. it's the cloudflare approach of just be bigger and you win. | 16:30:18 |
| majestrate | it's rather boring in that way | 16:30:37 |
 GitHub | ⬛ neilalexander closed issue yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-go#1113: "Panic if the key length in debug_ requests exceeds the maximum." | 17:55:38 |
| 4 Dec 2023 |
|  Ingwie Phoenix joined the room. | 13:20:13 |
| 5 Dec 2023 |
|  andygo joined the room. | 00:42:58 |
