| 29 Oct 2020 |
 @w4e:matrix.org | you are amazing as it is | 21:33:26 |
 Moxvallix | True | 21:33:33 |
 monban | I feel like we did have a bit more movement earlier on in the programming team and I would agree that we seem to have lost a little steam. I haven't checked the commits per day or whatever to verify that, but I think it's true. Maybe the initial enthusiasm wore off a bit, maybe we got through the easy stuff and now we have to make some harder architectural decisions, or maybe (and this is my theory) we just don't have a lot of guidance from the game design team (and this is not to throw rocks, just saying, not a lot we can do yet) as to what exactly we should be building. | 21:37:02 |
| @w4e:matrix.org | what do you think they should be doing now? | 21:37:38 |
| Moxvallix | Thats my theory. Much on what the future of the project is going to be will be determined by game design. | 21:38:08 |
| monban | when I look at the codebase right this moment and think about "doing some work", I think, well, what are the mechanics I need to implement? I'd like to maybe start on a sabotage system, but I don't know where to begin. How is the sabotage started? From a menu like AU, from a physical thing in the world, from some kind of group project that a traitor can "stop"? What effects will it have? How will it be resolved? And that's just one area, questions like that abound from almost every other area of the game right now. | 21:39:43 |
| monban | And just to be really really clear, I'm not trying to throw rocks at the game design team, if anything maybe it's on us, all of us, to be giving them ideas, assistance, and recommendations. Maybe when I sit down to code and can't think of what to write, instead of opening up Steam to play a few games instead, I should go over to the Game Design chat, or their kanban board, or whatever, and start a conversation. | 21:40:58 |
| Moxvallix | We need a full design document detailing the direction of the game, and the features to implement | 21:40:58 |
| monban | so I think a "full design document" sounds a little too much like the Waterfall paradigm to me, Agile development is what I'm accustomed to, and what most successful commercial developers are doing, I'd be happy with "hey here is an idea, how long do you think it would take to implement in a very basic form, so we can try it out and see if it's any fun?" | 21:43:06 |
 the2ndreal0 | developing systems without having stuff to actually use those systems is much better. When I was making that clock task, I found a lot of ways the map interaction system was lacking. Just developing frameworks/systems to do certain stuff without having concrete things the systems need to do does not work very well. | 21:44:38 |
| the2ndreal0 | I agree that we do need a concrete design document | 21:45:25 |
| the2ndreal0 | * developing systems while having stuff to actually use those systems is much better. When I was making that clock task, I found a lot of ways the map interaction system was lacking. Just developing frameworks/systems to do certain stuff without having concrete things the systems need to do does not work very well. | 21:45:46 |
| Moxvallix | I have posted to game design | 21:45:57 |
 Nice Micro | monban: honestly, I thought that we were kinda settled on quite a few things about the lobby | 23:43:24 |
| Nice Micro | that could be started to be implemented (maybe even without existing art, with placeholders or whatever) | 23:43:49 |
| monban | like the train and stuff? yeah I think we could throw some programmer art at it and get something running | 23:44:05 |
| Nice Micro | I mean, that was my intention last meeting, and I'm sad if I failed to communicate that unambiguously | 23:44:07 |
| monban | sounds like a fun project for this weekend | 23:44:13 |
| Nice Micro | I don't know how much the wardrobe stuff with changing the disguise can be implemented without actual artwork, but at least a system that stores whom chose which disguise could be done | 23:46:57 |
| Nice Micro | same with the map selection votebox without actual maps | 23:47:08 |
| Nice Micro | but now we've drown out the2ndreal0 's original comments with ours :D | 23:49:16 |
 @luke_connor:matrix.org | In reply to @nicemicro:matrix.org
I don't know how much the wardrobe stuff with changing the disguise can be implemented without actual artwork, but at least a system that stores whom chose which disguise could be done I believe that the best system can only be figured out once we know the character design and how it will be customized, it's not completely the same thing for all the current 5 contenders | 23:53:48 |
| 30 Oct 2020 |
| the2ndreal0 | I still think that the leadership structure should be changed. Less leaders would greatly reduce the amount bureaucracy, and allows the game to be a product of a more cohesive vision than a mish mash of what everyone wants. Also, the way leaders were selected wasn't the best. Not that voting for them was bad (it was good) but they were voted on way too early which means they're mostly the people who got here first. I'm not saying that the people elected weren't good choices, just that the pool to choose from was extremely limited. I think that we should reduce the amount of leadership positions and then gradually introduce them as they become necessary.
Also, I'm also not super sure about what project coordinators do? It seems like they're meant to make sure that everyone is on the same page but that's what meetings are for? Why are there 3 of them? One project coordinator to maintain a master design document seems plenty. Also, one of them only got like 5 votes but was still elected? Not that they shouldn't be a project coordinator, but that clearly shows a lack of approval for said coordinator and/or more likely a lack of candidates for project manager (4 people ran, the person who wasn't elected was primarily running for programming lead and lost coordinator by 1 vote). | 00:22:59 |
| the2ndreal0 | idk, to me it seems like the project rushed into hyper organization before it was big enough to warrant it | 00:24:36 |
| the2ndreal0 | * idk, to me it seems like the project rushed into hyper organization way before it was big enough to warrant it | 00:24:46 |
| Nice Micro | In reply to @the2ndreal0:matrix.org
idk, to me it seems like the project rushed into hyper organization way before it was big enough to warrant it on the first weekend 4 days after my initial reddit post, there were already 50+ people in the chats. | 00:35:51 |
| Nice Micro | we decided to make teams primarily to focus discussion of separate issues in separate forums | 00:37:01 |
| Nice Micro | we decided to have a team leader for each team, so there's a person who collects and evaluates the ideas for a certain topic | 00:37:27 |
| Nice Micro | we decided to have 3 coordinators in addition to the team leaders so no one person has to be under the weight of the responsibility, and they can discuss contentious issues and reach common sense decisions | 00:38:40 |
| the2ndreal0 | yeah, I agree with the decision to split into teams and to have a leader for each one. I guess my main problem right now is the way leaders/project managers were chosen, but more than that how there's no way for leadership to change | 00:39:48 |
