| 11 Dec 2024 |
 poVoq | No, the canonical truth of the room is the IRC channel. If the bridge is down you are getting lied to by your matrix homeserver that it still functions. | 11:06:05 |
| poVoq | A system that doesn't clearly communicate its failure modes is a badly designed one. | 11:07:50 |
 Skyflare ⚡️ | But on matrix this just another room used in an unusual way, nothing in the protocol makes it special | 11:08:18 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | Unless you want to change the protocol to formally include this statement
No, the canonical truth of the room is the IRC channel. If the bridge is down you are getting lied to by your matrix homeserver that it still functions.
| 11:08:18 |
| poVoq | This is the opposite of graceful degradation. | 11:08:20 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | Which is technically true but not on the Matrix protocol | 11:08:45 |
| poVoq | Skyflare ⚡️: i know how matrix works, and it is a bad design. | 11:09:09 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | poVoq: what do you mean? | 11:09:10 |
| poVoq | Graceful degradation describes a system that still functiins even if parts become inoperable. At first glance that is what matrix does. But in reality it just lies to the clients that parts that do not work in fact are still working and thus this is fake graceful degradation. | 11:11:00 |
| poVoq | Sorry, confusing wording | 11:11:50 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | til | 11:12:06 |
| poVoq | I mean it lies that the still work, when in reality they don't | 11:12:08 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | It make sense because of the point that I keep repeating, matrix.f-hub.org is just another server in the federation | 11:12:57 |
| poVoq | It is not, because it runs the bridge | 11:13:25 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | Unless you want matrix to complain every time a homeserver goes down (such as when Noisy shuts down his personal conduit server) | 11:13:39 |
| poVoq | Skyflare ⚡️: it actually does complsin forever in the server logs | 11:14:08 |
| poVoq | Activitypub at least has some built in mechanism that when a server is permanently unreachable it stops trying | 11:15:14 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | That bridge makes it nothing more than a more popular homeserver from the matrix prespective | 11:15:36 |
| poVoq | Synapse just spams the logs | 11:15:39 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | It's to avoid this issue ;P
At first glance that is what matrix does. But in reality it just lies to the clients that parts that do not work in fact are still working and thus this is fake graceful degradation.
| 11:16:18 |
| poVoq | Skyflare ⚡️: not for portaled rooms where the bridge is essential to the functionality of the room | 11:16:20 |
| poVoq | And we are discussing about such a room here, as #general is such a room. | 11:16:59 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | We're going in circles here | 11:17:18 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | That room is just another matrix room from the PoV of the matrix protocol | 11:18:14 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | just as how fgdb is just another user in libera | 11:18:31 |
| poVoq | Yes, because I know how matrix works and I am telling you it is a bad design. No matter how often you try to explain to me how matrix works, this isn't changing. | 11:19:03 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | Do you want Matrix to add a special case for every unusual usage of it? | 11:20:09 |
| poVoq | No, I think matrix is a lost cause | 11:20:44 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | And matrix already have a way to convery the info that started the whole discussion, it's called "Room Name" | 11:20:45 |
| Skyflare ⚡️ | It shouldn't add special cases just to please XMPP users | 11:21:10 |
