BEP021: Common electrophysiological derivatives

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PmcVs7vg7Th-cGC-UrX8rAhKUHIzOI-uIOh69_mvdlw/edit?usp=sharing1 Servers

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Timestamp Message
24 Aug 2018
15:55:03@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooksthat is the open question i have. i don't think they are informative at the derivatives folder level because i feel that without the original file to act on, it doesn't give useful information to act on
15:55:23@filo:matrix.orgChris Gorgolewskiconsidering the concept of independet derived datasets that could be shared and published I think it should be allowed
15:56:11@dorahermes:matrix.orgdorahermesshould there be an optional _annot.json that states who/which algorithm did the annotation?
15:56:25@dorahermes:matrix.orgdorahermesand which data it is meant for?
15:56:48@filo:matrix.orgChris GorgolewskiI think it's worthwhile thinking of metadata fields for annotations
15:57:10@filo:matrix.orgChris Gorgolewskibut in a pragamatic way - what things would applications filter on
15:57:54@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupreIn terms of needing the annnotations to act on the data, I think that still would need to be a derivative, unfortunately (though I completely see your point, Teon !)
15:57:57@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooks i think the metadata file should have the raw file that is applied to like dorahermes
15:58:08@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooksjust mentioned
15:59:01@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupreeffectively it's just not information that the investigator released, and it's subsequently extracted from the data. and yes your pipeline / process needs it, but there could theoretically be others that don't, so saying it's raw data is tricky
16:02:03@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooks so if you wanted to share say the original file but no the intermediate files say epochs or evoked etc. you would share the data at the raw file level and the derivatives folder with just the _annotations.tsv and its corresponding json
16:04:45@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupreso that's a bigger discussion @filo had brought up about the relationship between BIDS Raw and BIDS Derivatives and whether or not derivatives could sit next to raw files
16:05:24@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupreGood place to continue that discussion is in the BEP003 chat !
16:11:19@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupreBut WDYT about that as a working definition for derivatives vs raw in the annotation space ?
16:14:30@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrookssorry but what would be the working definition you mention?
But effectively what we came to agree is that derivatives have to exist in relation to the dataset as it was originally released. Otherwise, there's an almost infinite space of information you could additionally extract without transforming the data in any way (i.e., running NeuroScount with different parameter sets, having different humans annotate the data)
16:15:18@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooksoh yeah, i agree with that
16:17:01@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupre🎉 ok ! It took me like a day to come around to that idea, but I think it make sense. then yes, the organization / distribution becomes the next practical q..
16:17:37@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrooksoh, i was just thinking annotations, not all derivatives
16:17:49@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrookssorry, jumped the gun in agreeing too soon
16:18:52@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrookslet me think on it a bit longer
16:18:57@mainakjas:matrix.orgmainakjasI'm wondering if it's wise to redefine something that is already deffined in BEP003 ...
16:19:26@emdupre:matrix.orgemduprenothing is defined in BEP003 ! that's for today 😆
16:19:38@emdupre:matrix.orgemdupre but do you think this is a redefinition, mainakjas ?
16:19:57@teonbrooks:matrix.orgteonbrookswhoa, my emojis are huge!
16:23:53@mainakjas:matrix.orgmainakjas teonbrooks: bigger emojis won't convince me faster :)
16:24:54@dorahermes:matrix.orgdorahermesI just added some fields for the _annot.json:

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