!mxiHBciHzlLzlNVjll:matrix.org

ANT-trader

6 Members
Discussion related to the ANT token and trading it. Topics like ANT related exchanges and price speculation are allowed. Anything related trying to manipulate people or markets, price pump/dump for personal or other gains is not allowed2 Servers

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Timestamp Message
10 Dec 2018
11:12:21@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <jorge> Disclaimer: we have a very good relationship with the team, so i am positively biased ;)
11 Dec 2018
01:46:05@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> Thanks @jorge Really value and appreciate your input. As incredible as the project is, perhaps ZRX in its current iteration is not the best investment.
06:38:14@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <CryptoTom> @pj_crypto https://blog.0xproject.com/22-ideas-to-explore-with-0x-4d551c10dd4e and https://blog.0xproject.com/introducing-0x-instant-7314c786d743 may sway your opinion
12 Dec 2018
05:22:09@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> @CryptoTom thanks for links. Ox certainly an incredible project, but still convinced about ZRX. Skimmed through links and didnt really see anything to counter that. For example: 0x instant = Brilliant but where is crucial link to ZRX? "It automatically finds the best prices within the 0x networked liquidity pool and lets users pay for tokens with ETH via MetaMask, Ledger, Trezor, or any other Ethereum wallet."
05:22:34@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> @CryptoTom thanks for links. Ox certainly an incredible project, but still not convinced about ZRX. Skimmed through links and didnt really see anything to counter that. For example: 0x instant = Brilliant but where is crucial link to ZRX? "It automatically finds the best prices within the 0x networked liquidity pool and lets users pay for tokens with ETH via MetaMask, Ledger, Trezor, or any other Ethereum wallet."
07:17:33@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <jorge> 0x instant is great
14 Dec 2018
04:44:29@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> What do you guys think of bitcoin? I respect it for what it is and has done, but I just dont see its position in the inevitable new world crypto will build. Im sure it will do (very) well in the next bull run, but its such an inferior technology relative to its alternatives..
09:22:46@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <luis> Bitcoin is like the gold of cryptocurrencies -- it is extremely simple and dumb on purpose, and it only has memetic value. I think it's a great store of value
09:55:06@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <christopher.dixon> @pj_crypto i personally think bitcoin is dead in alot of ways, forked to death by its community leaders. its old tech. it was the trail blazing innovation that lead to web3.0 but its been out innovated. thats my unpopular opinion
10:00:05@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <christopher.dixon> its great for what it is and what its done, but it will only play a small part in the revolution it started. it simply doesnt offer anything other than name recognition at this point. it has no other utility than speculation and its community is in tatters, as is its chain
13:22:03@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <jorge> i hear you @christopher.dixon, however the first mover advantage for Bitcoin is truly real, and there is a lot of retail investors that only know and talk about bitcoin. it is a great gateway into the really interesting stuff :D
14:07:04@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> I think Bitcoin will do very well in the next 5 years, maybe even 10, but I see no need for it after it has effectively on ramped the world into crypto. I don’t believe its a good store of value having lost 80% of its value this year. I think DAI is a better store of value and I think the coming Ethereum based stable coins collateralized with land/gold are even better stores of value. I think Bitcoin is slow and expensive, but above all its the power consumption that bothers me. It uses as much power as Ireland and soon as much as Austria. When I project 50 years into the future, I cant see an intelligent species like us choosing Bitcoin as a store of value with all its obvious flaws when so many better, cheaper, environmentally friendly alternatives exist. That's my humble opinion and my mind is very open and flexible so please tell me where I am wrong. You guys know more than me. I truly think Aragon is more interesting and important than Bitcoin by a factor of 100+. When I project 30-50 years into future, I see the inevitable global application of Aragon or something similar assuming we dont regress into a post industrial dark age. Its just so obvious when examining the trajectory our society is taking.
14:07:24@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> I think Bitcoin will do very well in the next 5 years, maybe even 10, but I see no need for it after it has effectively on ramped the world into crypto. I don’t believe its a good store of value having lost 80% of its value this year. I think DAI is a better store of value and I think the coming Ethereum based stable coins collateralized with land/gold are even better stores of value. I think Bitcoin is slow and expensive, but above all its the power consumption that bothers me. It uses as much power as Ireland and soon as much as Austria. When I project 50 years into the future, I cant see an intelligent species like us choosing Bitcoin as a store of value with all its obvious flaws when so many better, cheaper, environmentally friendly alternatives exist. That's my humble opinion and my mind is very open and flexible so please tell me where I am wrong. You guys know more than me. I truly think Aragon is more interesting and important than Bitcoin by a factor of 100+. When I project 30-50 years into future, I see the inevitable global application of Aragon or something similar assuming we dont regress into a post industrial dark age. Its just so obvious when examining the trajectory our society is taking.
18:56:26@olivier:pando.networkolivier joined the room.
19:16:28@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> probably one of the better articles I've read about this recently: "The Bullish Case for Bitcoin" https://medium.com/@vijayboyapati/the-bullish-case-for-bitcoin-6ecc8bdecc1
15 Dec 2018
14:55:15@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> Thanks for the link @light Most of the info/arguments I was familiar with, and while I agree with much of it (money vs crypto), it omitted what I believe is Bitcoins biggest hindrance: its power consumption. Vijays article is so long and comprehensive that I have to assume he deliberately and dishonestly avoided this topic. Id also say the argument for "network effect" is a fallacy as the technological leader in a new industry is almost always supplanted, and in 10-20 years when other protocols have a trusted and established record + better features, I just dont see the logic in using Bitcoin.
14:58:22@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> Btw, Im not arguing, Im just putting forth my current understanding to test and then re-calibrate it if necessary to make better decisions :)
20:11:08@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> I think the complaints of its energy usage are both overblown and misguided. The energy use is a security feature: "unforgeable costliness".
20:11:23@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> Also: https://twitter.com/lightcoin/status/1073294515388047360?s=19
20:11:50@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> (Some estimate as much as 70% of bitcoin mining is powered by renewables.)
20:14:03@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> https://medium.com/coinshares/beware-of-lazy-research-c828c900b7d5
16 Dec 2018
13:07:55@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the next 10-20 years. One thing we can agree on is that Bitcoin is a vast improvement to the current fiat financial system, but ultimately its traction will depend on what the market wants. As the industry matures, governments become more involved, and the global population becomes more informed and define their requirements, I suspect they will choose something other than Bitcoin, preferring performance and efficiency while shunning wastefulness.
19:21:29@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> I personally choose sovereignty and security over performance and efficiency any day. Maybe one day we'll make a system that doesn't require that tradeoff. At least with layer 2 protocols like lightning and sidechains we get the best of both worlds.
19:22:28@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> Sovereignty and security at layer 1, performance and efficiency at layer 2.
17 Dec 2018
13:25:44@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <pj_crypto> Will lightening and sidechains reduce the energy expenditure? Would you consider Ethereum adequately sovereign and secure, and if not what would be required? Perhaps 5-10 years of functioning after serenity?
20:40:10@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> @pj_crypto L2 reduces energy per tx by increasing the number of transactions secured by each mainchain block.
20:44:03@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> I don't think the question about Ethereum really changes anything unless you're referring to pure Proof of Stake Ethereum in which case I can't comment since it's still mostly theoretical, however PoS is fundamentally different than PoW as it relies on "weak subjectivity" for security rather than the "unforgeable costliness" of Proof of Work. I haven't decided how I feel on the weak subjectivity debate but I lean toward preferring Proof of Work because subjectivity makes it easier for social engineering attacks to succeed at messing with blockchain state.
20:44:22@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> I don't think the question about Ethereum really changes anything wrt energy usage unless you're referring to pure Proof of Stake Ethereum in which case I can't comment since it's still mostly theoretical, however PoS is fundamentally different than PoW as it relies on "weak subjectivity" for security rather than the "unforgeable costliness" of Proof of Work. I haven't decided how I feel on the weak subjectivity debate but I lean toward preferring Proof of Work because subjectivity makes it easier for social engineering attacks to succeed at messing with blockchain state.
20:48:19@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> i.e. with proof of work, new users can easily know which blockchain is valid by computing which has the most accumulated difficulty under the rules their client has set. whereas under proof of stake new clients need a trusted third party to tell them which blockchain is the current valid blockchain. (that is how I understand it to work anyways)
20:48:39@bridge-bot:matrix.orgbridge-bot[rocketchat] <light> i.e. with proof of work, new users can easily know which blockchain is valid by computing which has the most accumulated difficulty under the rules their client has set. whereas under proof of stake new users need a trusted third party to tell them which blockchain is the current valid blockchain. (that is how I understand it to work anyways)

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