Sender | Message | Time |
---|---|---|
1 Nov 2018 | ||
colonelkrud | The goal is not to moderate other people’s servers. Simply our own index of their servers. And again, we are talking about the abusive stuff that you yourself just said is reprehensible and should be reported to the matrix.org staff | 19:57:53 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | "our"? Are you involved with this project?!?! | 20:03:35 |
a13xmt | Oh, I've lost the point actually. What is the main criteria for homeserver filtration? From my understanging, we filter homeservers based on its public rooms. If homeserver has a lot of unappropriate rooms, is should be filtered. I don't see how we can filter homeservers by their members actually :/ (but that's an idea to think about) | 20:03:40 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | "Appropriate" might just as well be Politically Correct, like what the hypocrite attackers of this project like. | 20:05:13 |
colonelkrud | Same. I was talking about homeserver scale filtration based on publicly listed rooms/activities of said homeserver that attempt to damage the operations of this project. | 20:05:18 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | Say hello to Google® censorship. | 20:05:55 |
colonelkrud | I seem to be failing to understand your comments. You admit that there is content that should be reported to moderators.. yet reject the idea of moderating? | 20:06:27 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | NSFW is one filter that may be bypassed by the user's choice. Also do so with whatever. | 20:07:12 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org |
Because, other than reprehensible crap like Child Porn' or snuff, the ones I mention do so in OTHER PEOPLE'S rooms, where not appropriate. Containing your dysfunction in your own rooms is another matter entirely!!! | 20:09:29 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org |
Neither New Vector nor the new Matrix(.)org Foundation represent not control the whole ecosystem. Individual room Mod's moderate their own rooms and Homeserver Dev'Op's decide if MXID deactivation is warranted. But censoring an independant list is another matter entirely. I say maybe allow filtering NSFW and non-Politically Correct content, and let the user decide. But do not put political spin on it; as you are pushing a P.C. agenda. | 20:15:28 |
a13xmt | Well, if we should filter homeservers by their members behaviour, I don't know, it's strange. Matrixstats is all about the rooms, not their members. It's logical, but its a question of accumulating and moderating the whole community in result. | 20:15:31 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | a13xmt: If crybullies like the ones who attacked you and this project have more time to scream loudly and crybully you, moreso than good netizens, maybe a filter for NSFW, and one for non-PC #nonPC . | 20:17:59 |
* @MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org : shrugs. | 20:18:12 | |
a13xmt | I don't see why homeservers should be filtered based on their members behaviour. The project is not about opinions, it's about the homeservers and rooms. I mean, it's the whole network catalog, not the subpart of the network catalog. We can alter porn and remove illegal stuff, but should we alter anything else? I've lost the point about purposes of such filtration, really. If you want to make whitelist community, I doubt that it would work regardless of the filtration quality. | 21:03:04 |
colonelkrud | Nope. We probably shouldn’t filter past legality and abuse of the spec. I used the word “community” and “weights” and that seemed to be a poor choice of words. | 21:05:29 |
colonelkrud | Even then.. homeserver filtering was a concept for the worst of the worst abusers and I agree that for now it should probably be ignored/administrated case by case. | 21:07:05 |
colonelkrud | Also by “filtering” I didn’t mean “ban” or “remove”.. simply a hidden flag that users can toggle on and off that is disabled by default when roaming the index. | 21:08:45 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | Filtering/flag was my concession, if you are going for a draw i.e. win/lose/draw. But here's a thing… IIRC this is a F(L)OSS project. So anyone aligned with, i.e. those bullies who attack all over the Federation while screaming their "special victimhood" status is free to make a fork or their own copy and decide what is Politicaly Correct on their own copy. Btw, One of my fellow "Community Stewards", a fellow maintainer ("janitor") of many rooms stated that bunch is so afraid of being "oppressed", they became opressors!!! I agree 100%. | 21:23:00 |
a13xmt | colonelkrud: It's all about the things we considering malicious. It's very debatable topic. I can agree with some of your points, but such filtration would quickly be abused (by majority, regularly) without the strong criterias. The problem is such criterias are broad, and we don't have a judge for that. From my point, the absolute illegal stuff homeservers (snuff/human trafficing/etc) should be removed, but that's it. I don't think we should hide anything else. I've also lost the understanding on how the porn should be actually filtered. What is the criteria for altering the homeserver as nfsw? Something like "80% of its rooms is porn"? I don't know, there are no much such homeservers. | 21:44:01 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | Sure. | 21:46:02 |
a13xmt | I'm taking some sleep then :] | 21:46:37 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | Rest well. | 21:47:32 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 21:52:16 |
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | In Latin it's Malum in se versus Malum prohibitum. Be careful when hypocrites or angry puppeted mobs get to be the arbiters of such. I think of Cambodia and "Pol Pot". | 21:52:33 |
2 Nov 2018 | ||
colonelkrud | I was really only talking about illegal stuff. If you want it removed, the whole thing is moot. Porn filtering should probably be by room. Homeservers could have many rooms with vastly different topics. I see no advantage to tagging them. How we add nsfw tags is a whole different topic. We should still honor description tags.. but maybe also offer description matching as well? Looking for keywords like “sex” might be sufficient to catch the rooms without proper category tags. | 14:08:19 |
colonelkrud | Unfortunately matrix does not really specify a standard for categorizing things. I’ve pushed the idea of having a “tags” descriptor for rooms before, but it’s low on the development list. Not every room tags the same way. Honestly once we get around to room claiming, room admins should be able to override their tags to be whatever they want them to be as well as customize with the descriptions and landing page for their room. | 14:12:42 |
3 Nov 2018 | ||
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org | a13xmt: In case you had not thought of it, I suggest extracting the info' from the Hello-Matrix List before it's "curated"; JSON links at the bottom. The JSON has more info'. Just the Homeserver URL/URI info' for all 84 listed Homeservers is here, and of those, the 38 listed Public Homeservers are filtered here. | 05:16:49 |
colonelkrud | Do we want servers that are private or not federating? We won’t be able to pull many if any stats from them and will not be able to index rooms. Perhaps for completion.. but I can’t really think of a use for storing them. It would just be a list of domain names | 05:55:09 |
colonelkrud | If you just want raw data about matrix, https://voyager.t2bot.io/#/stats is more focused on raw discovery but the creator has expressed that they are unwilling to share the information gathered to 3rd parties. IE you can use their website but anything automated/rehosting is against their policy | 05:57:40 |
colonelkrud | That project claims to have discovered 4,049 servers. | 05:58:27 |