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matrixstats-dev

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Discussions about matrixstats.org development and related topics. GitHub: https://github.com/a13xmt/matrixstats.org/issues37 Servers

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3 Nov 2018
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmtThanks. I've synced public ones. There were 5 missing ones. The private ones may be stored and revalidated periodically soon. There are some servers already marked as "private" at matrixstats, but "public" at hello-matrix, i.e they changed their status after the first matrixstats discovery. We can handle such cases. Not sure they should be displayed, they have very little impact indeed.06:53:17
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO

The "private" Homeservers are basicly the ones not open for registering MXIDs. I for one would like to know if a company with goods and services I use, has a Matrix Homeserver so I can get product support, this withOUT constantly trawling teh intervebz.

And I do NOT support the Social Graphing Opt-Out nature of that Voyager/traveller 'bot that puts individual MXIDs on it's Social Graph, showing the rooms where MXIDs are present. It's too creepy and invasive of privacy.

But anyone may see a list of Homeservers in a room, just by clicking on a link within view.matrix.org .

colonelkrud: You're just determined to FUD on this project as a "Concern Troll", huh? Do you work for Facebook®?

11:43:28
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Makes sense. Perhaps we can decide based on activity then? Servers with no visible activity don’t really add anything. 13:06:08
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Related to #59 13:08:23
@_neb_github:matrix.orgGithubhttps://github.com/a13xmt/matrixstats.org/issues/59 : Ping private servers periodically13:08:24
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkruda13xmt: if you just want a server list, I might be able to get you the list from voyager.13:13:40
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudObviously the list will be a huge jump in resources because of the sheer size of it. The bot could queue the list and slowly crawl it over time, validating each address, instead of just suddenly having thousands of servers to check?13:15:17
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO

A burgenoning list will dilute the percentage of Homeservers a few cry about, among many others.

Homeservers not open to anyone registering a MXID are not the same as an offline Homeserver. But for historical and other purposes, perhaps the dead or non-Federating Homeservers should be pushed to the bottom of the list. Instead of wondering if a Homeserver is offline or just not reporting presence, we could just check the list.

13:23:26
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud From the resource perspective, we could simply move them to an archive. Servers that have adopted “island” status and have nothing public and servers that are seemingly abandoned could be removed from active checking and moved to an archive. 13:25:53
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Though an archive almost feels like a separate project. Maybe we should have a dedicated archive git with every publicly discovered HS. Matrix-Stats could check the active ones. Since it’s a git repo, you’ll be able to check if anything has been removed. 13:28:03
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO

I can ACL ban certain Honeservers from rooms. This might be done unilaterally at the Homeserver level too. It does not mean nothing is public.

Mastodon has all instances available on one static list, even the ones where connectivity is questioned. I suggest waiting until Matrix is more populated before purging the list as, AGAIN, more Homeservers on the list gives SJW-Crybullies less to focus upon.

You type "we" a lot, as if you are officially affiliated with this project. I type, i.e. "The project could have…".

13:36:29
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud

I don’t understand how ACL bans have anything do do with the public visibility of servers.

If a server does not host any rooms with the permissions to be publicly visible, does not allow registration, and does not provide local addresses to public rooms.. it’s basically dead to us. We can check the version it is running and that’s it.

Keep in mind the scope of this project:

”We aim to make rooms more searchable and descriptive, so the users can explore thousands of rooms and become a part of the network shortly.”

13:42:13
@tulir:maunium.nettulir

Since it’s a git repo, you’ll be able to check if anything has been removed.

do you want a blockchain or an overcomplicated way to store removed servers?

13:45:01
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudPersonally? No.. I don’t see much if any point. Some people seem to be very concerned about censorship though13:45:56
@tulir:maunium.nettulirgit doesn't do anything about censorship13:46:08
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudTrue. I was just thinking about being more transparent instead of keeping it private.13:46:58
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudMostly since people can see the edit history. TBH I can’t think of much utility for an un-groomed list of homeservers. It would just be a list of thousands and thousands of domain names with little assurance they are actually maintaining an active homeserver. Splitting the list into “active” and “archive” might be slightly more useful..13:49:39
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud I did have a thought a while ago about comparing such a list to known domain blacklists. It might be interesting to see the percentage of blacklisted domains that are hosting a homeserver as part of the population 13:52:24
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO

Keep in mind the scope of this project:

”We aim to make rooms more searchable and descriptive, so the users can explore thousands of rooms and become a part of the network shortly.”

Is it YOUR PROJECT?!?! Keel in mind that in addition to the room index there is a Homeserver index, AND the Hello-Matrix list is no longer neutral nor objective, but biased and subjective.

True. I was just thinking about being more transparent instead of keeping it private.

Then do not push for keeping listing of some Homeservers "private".

TBH I can’t think of much utility for an un-groomed list of homeservers.

For the umpteenth time, if you want to "groom" your own "curated" list, fork this project and maintain your own list!

I did have a thought a while ago about comparing such a list to known domain blacklists. It might be interesting to see the percentage of blacklisted domains that are hosting a homeserver as part of the population

Yeah, THAT seems to be your only agenda in here Censorship and blacklisting. Fork the repo' and operate YOUR OWN list. This project has seen enough pushy people who do not appreciate the effort.

14:05:06
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud The scope is stated on the about page. 14:13:39
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO

Good on ya' for being able to read.

Fork the project, or just keep a downstream copy on your own hosting. Then you may issue whatever "scope" or prequalification, criteria, or whatever pedantic ambiguous rhetoric you like to justify your arbitrary curated blacklist grooming.

14:20:56
8 Nov 2018
@eric:ericmartindale.com@martindale joined the room.03:46:19
12 Nov 2018
@swedneck:swedneck.xyz@swedneck joined the room.00:48:11
@swedneck:swedneck.xyz@swedneckwell that's some interesting history to read00:54:12
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud:(01:20:04
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgMMJD-MxO Go way back, where muppeth got shitty with the Dev' and crapped on this project. 02:30:36
@max:kamax.ioMaximusWhat's the TL;DR for those with a huge backlog?02:44:34
@max:kamax.ioMaximus a13xmt: specifically asking you here, nobody else 02:45:43
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmt There wasn't actually such issues with muppeth. It was some feedback and that's it.

When the first bot version was released, there was a conversation about it's automatical registration and content indexing. The bot was intended to join servers and gather statistics on public rooms. And this kind of stuff wasn't very attractive for some members.

So the bot was stopped until it would be more user friendly.

Two weeks ago this conversation was started again. The reason is that hello-matrix server list is becoming curated, so matrixstats could probably take it place at homeserver indexing.

And, that conversation was resulted in some moderation proposals at matrixstats, the state we are currently in.
07:25:53
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmtSo, there wasn't actually any issues, at least as I see it07:28:53

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