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matrixstats-dev

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Discussions about matrixstats.org development and related topics. GitHub: https://github.com/a13xmt/matrixstats.org/issues37 Servers

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1 Nov 2018
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudNope. We probably shouldn’t filter past legality and abuse of the spec. I used the word “community” and “weights” and that seemed to be a poor choice of words.21:05:29
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Even then.. homeserver filtering was a concept for the worst of the worst abusers and I agree that for now it should probably be ignored/administrated case by case. 21:07:05
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudAlso by “filtering” I didn’t mean “ban” or “remove”.. simply a hidden flag that users can toggle on and off that is disabled by default when roaming the index.21:08:45
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org

Filtering/flag was my concession, if you are going for a draw i.e. win/lose/draw.

But here's a thing… IIRC this is a F(L)OSS project. So anyone aligned with, i.e. those bullies who attack all over the Federation while screaming their "special victimhood" status is free to make a fork or their own copy and decide what is Politicaly Correct on their own copy.

Btw, One of my fellow "Community Stewards", a fellow maintainer ("janitor") of many rooms stated that bunch is so afraid of being "oppressed", they became opressors!!! I agree 100%.

21:23:00
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmt colonelkrud: It's all about the things we considering malicious. It's very debatable topic. I can agree with some of your points, but such filtration would quickly be abused (by majority, regularly) without the strong criterias. The problem is such criterias are broad, and we don't have a judge for that.

From my point, the absolute illegal stuff homeservers (snuff/human trafficing/etc) should be removed, but that's it. I don't think we should hide anything else. I've also lost the understanding on how the porn should be actually filtered. What is the criteria for altering the homeserver as nfsw? Something like "80% of its rooms is porn"? I don't know, there are no much such homeservers.
21:44:01
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgSure.21:46:02
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmtI'm taking some sleep then :]21:46:37
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgRest well.21:47:32
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.orgRedacted or Malformed Event21:52:16
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org In Latin it's Malum in se versus Malum prohibitum. Be careful when hypocrites or angry puppeted mobs get to be the arbiters of such. I think of Cambodia and "Pol Pot". 21:52:33
2 Nov 2018
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud

I was really only talking about illegal stuff. If you want it removed, the whole thing is moot.

Porn filtering should probably be by room. Homeservers could have many rooms with vastly different topics. I see no advantage to tagging them. How we add nsfw tags is a whole different topic. We should still honor description tags.. but maybe also offer description matching as well? Looking for keywords like “sex” might be sufficient to catch the rooms without proper category tags.

14:08:19
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudUnfortunately matrix does not really specify a standard for categorizing things. I’ve pushed the idea of having a “tags” descriptor for rooms before, but it’s low on the development list. Not every room tags the same way. Honestly once we get around to room claiming, room admins should be able to override their tags to be whatever they want them to be as well as customize with the descriptions and landing page for their room.14:12:42
3 Nov 2018
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org

a13xmt: In case you had not thought of it, I suggest extracting the info' from the Hello-Matrix List before it's "curated"; JSON links at the bottom. The JSON has more info'.

Just the Homeserver URL/URI info' for all 84 listed Homeservers is here, and of those, the 38 listed Public Homeservers are filtered here.

05:16:49
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud

Do we want servers that are private or not federating? We won’t be able to pull many if any stats from them and will not be able to index rooms.

Perhaps for completion.. but I can’t really think of a use for storing them. It would just be a list of domain names

05:55:09
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudIf you just want raw data about matrix, https://voyager.t2bot.io/#/stats is more focused on raw discovery but the creator has expressed that they are unwilling to share the information gathered to 3rd parties. IE you can use their website but anything automated/rehosting is against their policy05:57:40
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudThat project claims to have discovered 4,049 servers.05:58:27
@a13xmt:matrix.orga13xmtThanks. I've synced public ones. There were 5 missing ones. The private ones may be stored and revalidated periodically soon. There are some servers already marked as "private" at matrixstats, but "public" at hello-matrix, i.e they changed their status after the first matrixstats discovery. We can handle such cases. Not sure they should be displayed, they have very little impact indeed.06:53:17
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org

The "private" Homeservers are basicly the ones not open for registering MXIDs. I for one would like to know if a company with goods and services I use, has a Matrix Homeserver so I can get product support, this withOUT constantly trawling teh intervebz.

And I do NOT support the Social Graphing Opt-Out nature of that Voyager/traveller 'bot that puts individual MXIDs on it's Social Graph, showing the rooms where MXIDs are present. It's too creepy and invasive of privacy.

But anyone may see a list of Homeservers in a room, just by clicking on a link within view.matrix.org .

colonelkrud: You're just determined to FUD on this project as a "Concern Troll", huh? Do you work for Facebook®?

11:43:28
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Makes sense. Perhaps we can decide based on activity then? Servers with no visible activity don’t really add anything. 13:06:08
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Related to #59 13:08:23
@_neb_github:matrix.orgGithubhttps://github.com/a13xmt/matrixstats.org/issues/59 : Ping private servers periodically13:08:24
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkruda13xmt: if you just want a server list, I might be able to get you the list from voyager.13:13:40
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudObviously the list will be a huge jump in resources because of the sheer size of it. The bot could queue the list and slowly crawl it over time, validating each address, instead of just suddenly having thousands of servers to check?13:15:17
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org

A burgenoning list will dilute the percentage of Homeservers a few cry about, among many others.

Homeservers not open to anyone registering a MXID are not the same as an offline Homeserver. But for historical and other purposes, perhaps the dead or non-Federating Homeservers should be pushed to the bottom of the list. Instead of wondering if a Homeserver is offline or just not reporting presence, we could just check the list.

13:23:26
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud From the resource perspective, we could simply move them to an archive. Servers that have adopted “island” status and have nothing public and servers that are seemingly abandoned could be removed from active checking and moved to an archive. 13:25:53
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud Though an archive almost feels like a separate project. Maybe we should have a dedicated archive git with every publicly discovered HS. Matrix-Stats could check the active ones. Since it’s a git repo, you’ll be able to check if anything has been removed. 13:28:03
@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org@MilkManzJourDaddy:matrix.org

I can ACL ban certain Honeservers from rooms. This might be done unilaterally at the Homeserver level too. It does not mean nothing is public.

Mastodon has all instances available on one static list, even the ones where connectivity is questioned. I suggest waiting until Matrix is more populated before purging the list as, AGAIN, more Homeservers on the list gives SJW-Crybullies less to focus upon.

You type "we" a lot, as if you are officially affiliated with this project. I type, i.e. "The project could have…".

13:36:29
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrud

I don’t understand how ACL bans have anything do do with the public visibility of servers.

If a server does not host any rooms with the permissions to be publicly visible, does not allow registration, and does not provide local addresses to public rooms.. it’s basically dead to us. We can check the version it is running and that’s it.

Keep in mind the scope of this project:

”We aim to make rooms more searchable and descriptive, so the users can explore thousands of rooms and become a part of the network shortly.”

13:42:13
@tulir:maunium.nettulir

Since it’s a git repo, you’ll be able to check if anything has been removed.

do you want a blockchain or an overcomplicated way to store removed servers?

13:45:01
@colonelkrud:matrix.colonelkrud.comcolonelkrudPersonally? No.. I don’t see much if any point. Some people seem to be very concerned about censorship though13:45:56

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