| 28 Jul 2021 |
 Dezponia | Boring and unimaginative | 10:09:57 |
 stefan | thats what you sign up for with japanese Novels really | 10:13:09 |
| Dezponia | Doesn't mean I have to like it :) | 10:25:20 |
| stefan | I dont expect that aspect to change any time soon though | 10:28:51 |
| Dezponia | Not that western fantasy is much better. The Tolkien versions of fantasy races is deeply embedded in society. | 10:26:28 |
| stefan | you just don't like Tolkien lol. But yeah you are right. It is just what you picture a stereotypical fantasy | 10:30:23 |
| Dezponia | In reply to @stefan:lightnovel-dungeon.de
you just don't like Tolkien lol. But yeah you are right. It is just what you picture a stereotypical fantasy True. I don't particularly like Tolkien, but for very different reasons. However Tolkiens spin on mythical races such as orcs and elves are NOT how they were typically portrayed before Tolkien. His version of these races has had a massive influence and most fantasy writers now fall into the trap of using his archetypes and designs. | 11:02:40 |
| Dezponia | Before Tolkien fantasy races were usually different from region to region, for example Elfs were portrayed vastly differently between the north and south of Europe both physically and lore wise. They were also often used in different mixes rather than the typical mix we so today of Elves, Dwarfs, Trolls, Orcs, and Ogres. Its basically a given at this point that if you see an Elf in a story you KNOW there will be a Dwarf as well. | 11:06:13 |
| Dezponia | * Before Tolkien fantasy races were usually different from region to region, they were also often used in different mixes rather than the typical mix we so today of Elves, Dwarfs, Trolls, Orcs, and Ogres. Its basically a given at this point that if you see an Elf in a story you KNOW there will be a Dwarf as well. | 11:06:32 |
| Dezponia | * Before Tolkien fantasy races were usually different from region to region, for example Elfs were portrayed vastly differently between the north and south of Europe both physically and lore wise. They were also often used in different mixes rather than the typical mix we so today of Elves, Dwarfs, Trolls, Orcs, and Ogres. Its basically a given at this point that if you see an Elf in a story you KNOW there will be a Dwarf as well. | 11:07:41 |
| Dezponia | And frankly "that's just how Light Novels are" doesn't make it any less terrible writing. | 11:08:46 |
| Dezponia | Even when an author does try something slightly different like Ennki Hakari did with the Dark Elves skin colour in Skeleton Knight it seems to get crushed under the generic moe-culture once anything commercial gets their hands on it. | 11:10:48 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
And frankly "that's just how Light Novels are" doesn't make it any less terrible writing. You know as well as me that LN are not supposed to be peak writing anyway, so why measure them that way? You may also look into non-Japanese LN, I dont know how most of those are really but maybe you will find other stuff there? | 11:14:02 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
Even when an author does try something slightly different like Ennki Hakari did with the Dark Elves skin colour in Skeleton Knight it seems to get crushed under the generic moe-culture once anything commercial gets their hands on it. Thats what sells in Japan and in the anime-fandom so sure that gets pursued further | 11:14:30 |
| Dezponia | In reply to @stefan:lightnovel-dungeon.de
You know as well as me that LN are not supposed to be peak writing anyway, so why measure them that way? You may also look into non-Japanese LN, I dont know how most of those are really but maybe you will find other stuff there? This seems like a weak and slightly harmful argument. To me it feels like saying that LN authors shouldn't strive to improve and just be content, or even actively target average writing. :) | 11:14:11 |
| Dezponia | In reply to @stefan:lightnovel-dungeon.de
Thats what sells in Japan and in the anime-fandom so sure that gets pursued further I'm not happy about that either :) | 11:15:27 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
This seems like a weak and slightly harmful argument. To me it feels like saying that LN authors shouldn't strive to improve and just be content, or even actively target average writing. :) Just telling how it is in the market right now. I am also the one to praise outstanding writing, but point is most of is just "fine" or not really that inspired. The Market right now has a problem though I will admit that as well. | 11:20:37 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
I'm not happy about that either :) Money talks Moe is just the thing right now in Japan | 11:21:21 |
| Dezponia | I like Anime and its style, I helped create the Matrix "Otaku Community" after all. I think there is room for a wider range of styles within the anime community. Few stories cater outside of the Moe blob stuff so I'm happy when I find those more original ones and sad when I don't. I'll continue to mention when a story is generic :3 | 11:20:53 |
| Dezponia | * I like Anime and its style, I helped create the Matrix "Otaku Community" after all. I think there is room for a wider range of styles within the anime community. Few stories cater outside of the Moe blob stuff so I'm happy when I find those more original ones and sad when I don't. I'll continue to mention when a story is generic :3 | 11:21:10 |
| Dezponia | But for the Dark Elf thing I still don't understand the amethyst skin change. Its not like amethyst skin on Dark Elfs is a new idea either. Its just slightly more common in western fantasy depiction of dark elves than it is in Japanese. | 11:22:27 |
| Dezponia | The Elders Scroll games for example have more amethyst-like skin on their Dark Elfs (not quite, but much closer and with slight variations between character-to-character) | 11:25:10 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
The Elders Scroll games for example have more amethyst-like skin on their Dark Elfs (not quite, but much closer and with slight variations between character-to-character) now you mention it yeah they do. | 11:28:37 |
| Dezponia | For example :) https://www.deviantart.com/freyzart/art/The-Elder-Scrolls-Dark-Elf-Mage-652410551 | 11:26:53 |
| Dezponia | * For example :) https://www.deviantart.com/freyzart/art/The-Elder-Scrolls-Dark-Elf-Mage-652410551 | 11:26:57 |
| Dezponia | Given all that its just such an unnecessary change that its dripping with unnecessary publisher meddling. I can't imagine the author being thrilled either to have their vision trampled like that | 11:28:54 |
| stefan | In reply to @Dezponia:matrix.org
I like Anime and its style, I helped create the Matrix "Otaku Community" after all. I think there is room for a wider range of styles within the anime community. Few stories cater outside of the Moe blob stuff so I'm happy when I find those more original ones and sad when I don't. I'll continue to mention when a story is generic :3 Sure there is room for more styles, though I think finding that in the middle of the flood we have is hard. | 11:32:48 |
| Dezponia | Der Werwolf: The Annals of Veight seems to do this well though. Lots of more monster/beastly races there from what I found in a quick look before buying the first volume | 11:33:19 |
| Dezponia | Most stories with different races have some kind of conflict between them as a core story beat. This makes more sense and is easier to drive home when the monster races look like proper monsters. Der Werwolf seem to do this rather well from what I've gathered. | 11:34:21 |
| Dezponia | Guess I'll see when I start reading it. Some of the "demon races" look nice though :) | 11:36:44 |
