| 7 Mar 2024 |
 oinkingpork | chinese are evil when a kid feels rebellious they want to force them more to 'break their rebellion' so they're evil. | 16:04:32 |
| 8 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Redacted or Malformed Event | 20:36:45 |
| 12 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Adults do more than force children to pay attention to long-term interests. What adults fear most is that the child will focus on or emotionally care about his interests over a period of months, because such a child will not give up disobedience in order to avoid the hassle of arguments and punishments, on the one hand, and on the other hand, he will not be willing to obey by valuing his own interests decades down the road. This matter is the essence of adult control of children. It's also heartbreaking. | 20:05:32 |
| 18 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | For example, a teacher uses a conspiracy theory argument one day to support discipline and punishment of students, you go home, hug yourself, cry, comfort yourself and say "conspiracy theories are bad", the next day the teacher says that the prevalence of conspiracy theories proves a lack of discipline and punishment of the students, and a student tells the teacher that his statement the day before was a conspiracy theory, and then the The teacher will say that "in order to avoid such inconsistencies in human beings, one needs discipline and restraint during one's time as a student", and that "this reflective nature of the student is proof of the success of his education and of the depth of Chinese culture embedded in discipline". but "If you continue to be disruptive and interfere with the normal management of the class, then you will be punished" and the last sentence does not become the first sentence of the teacher's response proving the virtue of mercy. | 13:42:50 |
| 19 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | If all children commit suicide as soon as they are persecuted, then they will be free. | 14:53:32 |
| oinkingpork | Man has the freedom to indulge himself. This freedom, like any freedom, is inviolable, and its violation is immoral. Self-destruction in any form, whether it's as immediate as suicide or playing on your phone at 3 a.m., is inviolable. If someone has a natural emotion and hopes that someone else will not do it, then that person must be a parent, not a government or a school. | 15:00:37 |
| oinkingpork | Also, I really don't feel that I have the right to ask others to study hard to develop the economy of the society. | 15:16:35 |
| oinkingpork | Constraints are devastating. Being forced to do one thing can cause you to be unwilling to do five things you would otherwise do yourself. You are confronted with your rebellion. Suppose you are also forced to do those five things, because anger is an uncomfortable feeling, or you still try to accept the five things you would have done, you decide to comfort your rebellion. Or, you're just thinking subconsciously. Whatever the case may be, you realize that you can convince yourself that you can study hard for the good of others and not just yourself, you can try to convince yourself that teachers and parents are your employers, and you can try to convince yourself that you wouldn't actually do those five things assuming no one is pushing you. Aware of these things frightens you, because your anger does not want to go away, and because these things may be the reason why others are willing to accept being constrained; whether consciously or not, you always inevitably ask yourself why you can't be as obedient as they are. Another reason to feel fear is that you fear that accepting them will lead you to inadvertently accept what you are not forced to do, or to miss out on ideas that can be used to try and persuade the person constraining you. People criticize you every day with inadequate arguments, and you reflect on it with a hundred times the thought they did when they criticized you, so that you don't feel as bad as being criticized. Lying to yourself or not thinking enough will not make you feel good either, because (1) they will point out tomorrow where you are deceiving yourself or underconsidering (albeit in the middle of 50 criticisms with insufficient reasons), and (2) one of the main reasons why this kind of thinking makes you feel better is that you use your thinking to persuade the person who restricts you in your imagination (although this communication does not have a chance to happen), and false or insufficient reflection does not reassure you. You are basically not using your reason for your own long-term good, you are using the unimaginable amount of self-reflection for those who are not vulnerable, to protect the part of you that is rebellious and saying, 'You should be allowed to decide for yourself'. | 17:01:08 |
| 20 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | I just thought of something else. Some people say that school teaches self-discipline. I don't support unnatural consequences by any means, whether or not primary and secondary schools can teach self-discipline. To take a step back, I don't think forcing a person can teach a person self-discipline. And even if it worked, it wouldn't be necessary, because it's perfectly possible for a child to learn self-discipline by facing natural consequences after work - if one has to use the expression "learning self-discipline". I'm in college now, and the busiest days of college aren't nearly as busy as 1/3 of primary and secondary schools here, and most importantly, no one punishes or shames me. I still have to do things to graduate, and I have to push myself to do things sometimes. I realised that I could say to myself, "I went through so much in primary and secondary school, I just need to emulate what I did then, but do college tasks as I wish." That thought really scared me. Although, I could argue that just because I push myself in this way doesn't mean I'm in favour of primary and secondary school; I'd rather I didn't have primary and secondary school experiences to draw on, but primary and secondary school experiences are a fait accompli. But, no, I'm not going to rush myself by recalling my primary and secondary school experiences. To take a step back, a month or two of experience can provide experience, not 12 years of primary and secondary school. Taking another step back, one may feel rebellious and try to deliberately lose the ability to exercise self-discipline that one gets from primary and secondary school. People can be so in love with freedom that after they get it, they still, sometimes, choose to destroy what others have built in them that could have been of use to them. | 14:48:07 |
| oinkingpork | Why do we seek the support of people who can't help us in reality? We are seeking the approval of others, sometimes as a weakening force of criticism on us.
We initially accept criticism from others out of self-improvement or concern for others, but the criticism we hear when we can't leave makes us look for the opposite power, which is ironic and hideous. | 16:24:14 |
| oinkingpork | Trying to force a child for the sake of the child is a major mistake made by human beings. The whole of our modern culture—the quest for recognition of others that is used to control our minds over the power of criticism from others, the aversion to flattery that both rebellion and self-restraint can lead to, the pleasure of criticizing others, and most of the offense and etiquette—are dangerously based on this error.
试图为了孩子的利益强迫孩子是人类做的重大错误。我们的全部现代文化——用作控制我们的头脑对待来自别人的批评的力量的对别人的认同的追求，叛逆和自我约束两者都会导致的对奉承的厌恶，从批评别人中感到快感，大多冒犯和礼仪，都危险地基于这个错误之上。 | 17:09:05 |
| 21 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Homework is also weird. Why aren't you allowed to do any homework you want? The teacher doesn't explain a lot of the content anyway. Especially with language education assignments, I don't see any need for it to be synchronized with the course content, so why not read whatever you want to read and write whatever you want to write? | 05:19:48 |
| oinkingpork | As far as one's own affairs are concerned, criticism should not be imposed on others, but should only appear when people actively seek it. But the trauma caused by the school and some parents is so great that people don't use the word "criticism" when they ask friends or experienced people if there is anything wrong with what they are doing. People must put an end to the status quo, stop the unsought comments, and let criticism reappear only in situations where people actively seek it. | 15:28:57 |
| 22 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | If you were forced to study hard, why didn't you deliberately find a less good job? It's stupid, but if people did it, parents would have no reason to push their kids.
You can say that you don't need such a good job, and you can also say that you won't do that to your children again, but your words are more powerful only after you have turned down a good job. | 06:25:02 |
| oinkingpork | Another strange thing about Chinese primary and secondary schools is that they require you to stay at school when you are not in class, even in the morning, and punish you if you go late. | 08:15:06 |
| oinkingpork | For determined parents, children can consider ways and means to commit suicide, with a sincere desire to commit suicide as a compulsion for their learning autonomy. | 10:31:42 |
| 24 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | There are also things like school uniforms. The purpose of the school is to avoid giving a bad impression to parents, but they will definitely not say that when they talk to students, right? They will say that this is to cultivate "the character of discipline" and "to express respect for teachers." Then, if you don't, you're punished. | 04:36:20 |
| oinkingpork | In the end, the teacher didn't even try. He just said, "If the army didn't have uniforms, everything would be messed up." Then he began to scold the students for being degenerate, and asked the "undressed" students to write a 5,000-word self-criticism. | 04:42:33 |
| oinkingpork | Punctuality was also a strange requirement, especially considering that there was no one to lecture for the first half hour. If you were late, you were penalized for "disrupting the class," "lack of leaning status and attitude," and "character enhancement and discipline." | 11:21:14 |
| oinkingpork | just dont force kids to do anything, they'll learn 3/4/5 hrs a day, and that's enough. dont ask for more. also if it's below 3/4/5 hrs you can give advice or information, but dont force them or scold them or make them feel ashamed or anything like that. | 13:57:16 |
| 29 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | The fact that a reprimand can be a punishment certainly has the relatively plain "let you find out what's bad about yourself" part of it, but it's also saying, "I know you won't accept this, but you still have self-contradiction, so you're going to feel bad about it, and I'm going to use that to punish you, and I'm even going to use your feelings of anger and rebellion to punish you. Make you feel annoyed due to your anger and rebellion against me as a punishment." | 18:29:29 |
| oinkingpork | https://medium.com/@porkifiableoinking/anger-as-punishment-c5ed7316371d | 19:12:45 |
| oinkingpork | https://medium.com/@porkifiableoinking/anger-as-punishment-c5ed7316371d | 19:12:49 |
| 30 Mar 2024 |
| oinkingpork | You know, when someone criticizes your views and ideologies every day because you haven't read a lot of traditional culture classics, you can really get caught up in self-contradiction and anger. When you leave those people, you find that everything is fine. I guess the other option is to work overtime to read the traditional cultural classics, and then argue with the adults that you read them, but still hold on to your views and ideologies, but to be honest, they don't care, they will still discipline you, and considering that the traditional cultural classics are basically praising the child's spirit of obedience, this is just not a good deal for you. | 20:08:58 |
| oinkingpork | They are really constantly trying to convince you that your point of view is the result of a bad character, something that needs to be improved, and cannot be used as a basis for decision-making. For example, they just say that video games are drugs, so students' opinions are a manifestation of delirium and passivity, and that reading classic books or watching the news can prove that what they are doing to students is reasonable, profound, and reflects the profound wisdom of traditional culture. I say this as if you really have a chance to make your point. No, you certainly don't get a chance to make your point unless you want to write a 5000-word self-criticism. They're doing "preventative character development" or something. | 20:33:33 |
| 13 Apr 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Obedience is nothing more than avoiding the punishment of the moment, or even indulging in an inexplicable fear of being punished. By the time he expresses it anyway, or disobeys anyway, it is because his anger at you has become so painful to him that it transcends the fear of being punished. This is why there is no calm rebellion. | 18:31:52 |
| 14 Apr 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Don't be afraid to tell your parents that you don't need to go to school every day just because your teacher won't even allow you to not do your homework. Parents are crazy people who stupidly trust teachers. A teacher is an employee who completes the tasks given to him by the school in order to earn a salary. "The discipline that children receive is the result of careful consideration and is difficult to improve, otherwise they would not have bothered to discipline you" is basically the opposite of the reality in which we live. The reality is that people are crazy and stupid people who do things to others without really thinking about why they do it. The mindset of adults towards children is similar to the mindset of us unconsciously playing with our phones day in and day out, except that people do this to another person and force more than a decade of obedience and effort. | 08:06:48 |
| oinkingpork | No, I said they were alike, I didn't say they were the same. I believe people can do anything to themselves. And if a person regrets that you didn't study hard in the first place, he can start studying to get a better job, which doesn't mean that people should push their children. | 08:36:22 |
| 16 Apr 2024 |
| oinkingpork | Man has the freedom to destroy his long-term interests while destroying his short-term interests. For even if a man chooses to destroy his short-term interests but for no long-term interests, he must have other categories of interests in mind, and different categories of interests are not comparable by others. This is why 'Rebelliousness is an annoying feeling so it's even not good for your short-term interest' is not a justified reason to forbid rebelliousness. | 20:26:13 |
| 17 Apr 2024 |
|  @autumn:raincloud.dev left the room. | 07:09:51 |
