22 Jun 2019 |
Matthew | bah | 22:10:16 |
Matthew | !github create matrix-org/matrix-doc "governance docs should spell out that building a project on matrix doesn't automatically mean you get to define the protocol" "i.e. there is no claim-of-stake. instead, anyone can participate, as long as they are aligned with the project's mission and following the governance rules" | 22:10:42 |
Github | Created issue: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/2142 | 22:10:44 |
CalcatriX | I'm not sure that solves the issue. I totally agree with the principal of that position. Anyone can contribute. Nobody should be locked out from the bottom line | 22:10:51 |
CalcatriX | But it doesn't help the immediate noise issue. | 22:11:02 |
CalcatriX | I shouldn't have to battle randoms like Jamie and Kytheria to finally reach a substantive discussion with Travis | 22:11:37 |
CalcatriX | I believe this may be a cultural problem | 22:11:55 |
Matthew | !github create matrix-org/matrix-doc "governance docs should spell out that contributors should be competent" "i don't think we have anything that says 'before you make a proposal, try not to be out of your depth'. it might be worth gently adding" | 22:12:09 |
Github | Created issue: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/2143 | 22:12:10 |
Matthew | perhaps ^ helps balance it slightly. | 22:12:23 |
CalcatriX |
try not to be out of your depth
Totally on point.
| 22:12:30 |
CalcatriX | For example, why is Half-Shot responding to Frislie's federation canonical JSON MSC with nonsense? | 22:12:51 |
Matthew | you sure seem to know a lot about the matrix community for someone who claims
I'm new. I don't know what's going on.
| 22:13:43 |
CalcatriX | Half-Shot doesn't do any federation work. It's alright if they were correct in their facts, but after they aren't, it's very demotivating to the MSC author... | 22:13:43 |
CalcatriX | Matthew: Thanks for your ear. I sincerely appreciate it. | 22:14:15 |
| CalcatriX left the room. | 22:14:18 |
| * Matthew vaguely wonders why he ever thought it was a good idea to try to lead an opensource project, turns off his laptop and goes to watch some tv | 22:15:25 |
| CalcatriX joined the room. | 22:16:42 |
Half-Shot | I would like to point out that I do some fed work, just not as a day job :( | 22:17:24 |
CalcatriX | Half-Shot: How come message edits aren't deployed on riot.im yet? | 22:18:07 |
CalcatriX | I just wanted to correct some typos FTR | 22:18:29 |
Half-Shot | Dunno, ask in #riot:matrix.org ? | 22:18:44 |
Half-Shot | If I am wrong on some facts, please point them out in the MSC and then the author can be re-motivated. Otherwise if they are unchallenged, then it would be assumed that the point stands. | 22:19:50 |
CalcatriX | The author pointed them out in the MSC, and went beyond pointing them out too and broached ad hom frankly. When the author came to me afterward, I linked them to my prediction of what would happen with that MSC and so far everything in my prediction has been correct. | 22:21:43 |
Half-Shot | I'm glad you predicted correctly? | 22:22:13 |
Half-Shot | IIRC, the author wanted to do some behaviour change that would break existing federation and we decided upon a way to introduce it into the spec. It's resolved as far as I'm concerned and its up to the spec team to review. There isn't a problem | 22:24:04 |
Half-Shot | If the author went away because they were challenged, then that's unfortunate but it is the nature of the spec process. | 22:24:57 |
| * Half-Shot defers to a spec team member and does something else with his evening | 22:25:17 |
CalcatriX | The prediction was basically this:
- Frislie, you will spend a bunch of time composing this MSC and submit it.
- Immediately somebody from the core spec team, or an orbiting sycophant close to it, who specifically does not have any stake in federation will respond with a review.
- The review will be incorrect on a factual level. It will make claims and state issues that are simply not real. Claims that will not be relevant to any implementation of a server or canonical JSON.
- A long back and forth discussion will ensue, long enough (and silly enough) that nobody will really want to spend time reading it.
- The MSC will become tacitly labeled as controversial, and require more review before moving forward.
- The MSC will remain Open indefinitely. The core spec team will no longer respond to the thread.
| 22:27:51 |
CalcatriX | What's 7? | 22:27:54 |