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For meta-discussion about the MSC proposal process | https://matrix.org/blog/2018/06/20/towards-open-governance-for-matrix-org/ | https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/131813 Servers

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22 Jun 2019
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriXHalf-Shot doesn't do any federation work. It's alright if they were correct in their facts, but after they aren't, it's very demotivating to the MSC author...22:13:43
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX Matthew: Thanks for your ear. I sincerely appreciate it. 22:14:15
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX left the room.22:14:18
* @matthew:matrix.orgMatthew vaguely wonders why he ever thought it was a good idea to try to lead an opensource project, turns off his laptop and goes to watch some tv22:15:25
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX joined the room.22:16:42
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-ShotI would like to point out that I do some fed work, just not as a day job :(22:17:24
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX Half-Shot: How come message edits aren't deployed on riot.im yet? 22:18:07
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriXI just wanted to correct some typos FTR22:18:29
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-ShotDunno, ask in #riot:matrix.org ?22:18:44
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-ShotIf I am wrong on some facts, please point them out in the MSC and then the author can be re-motivated. Otherwise if they are unchallenged, then it would be assumed that the point stands.22:19:50
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriXThe author pointed them out in the MSC, and went beyond pointing them out too and broached ad hom frankly. When the author came to me afterward, I linked them to my prediction of what would happen with that MSC and so far everything in my prediction has been correct.22:21:43
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-Shot I'm glad you predicted correctly? 22:22:13
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-Shot IIRC, the author wanted to do some behaviour change that would break existing federation and we decided upon a way to introduce it into the spec. It's resolved as far as I'm concerned and its up to the spec team to review. There isn't a problem 22:24:04
@Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-Shot If the author went away because they were challenged, then that's unfortunate but it is the nature of the spec process. 22:24:57
* @Half-Shot:half-shot.ukHalf-Shot defers to a spec team member and does something else with his evening22:25:17
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX

The prediction was basically this:

  1. Frislie, you will spend a bunch of time composing this MSC and submit it.
  2. Immediately somebody from the core spec team, or an orbiting sycophant close to it, who specifically does not have any stake in federation will respond with a review.
  3. The review will be incorrect on a factual level. It will make claims and state issues that are simply not real. Claims that will not be relevant to any implementation of a server or canonical JSON.
  4. A long back and forth discussion will ensue, long enough (and silly enough) that nobody will really want to spend time reading it.
  5. The MSC will become tacitly labeled as controversial, and require more review before moving forward.
  6. The MSC will remain Open indefinitely. The core spec team will no longer respond to the thread.
22:27:51
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriXWhat's 7?22:27:54
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX
In reply to @Half-Shot:half-shot.uk
If the author went away because they were challenged, then that's unfortunate but it is the nature of the spec process.
The author was challenged and responded to you with correct facts. This concept seems to be lost on you. But it's highly frustrating for someone to continue debating with a core spec team member in that kind of environment. He tried. He tried quite well.
22:29:24
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriXI even told him not to waste his time, but he persisted anyway.22:29:49
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX
In reply to * @Half-Shot:half-shot.uk
defers to a spec team member and does something else with his evening
I don't appreciate this kind snark. It's unprofessional and it pollutes the record here. If you're not around to respond, or if you have something better to do: don't be around.
22:30:48
@calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX left the room.22:32:32
24 Jun 2019
@richvdh:matrix.orgpoorvdh banned @calcatrix:matrix.orgCalcatriX (banned from the community for previous abuse).15:24:52
@travis:t2l.ioTravisR banned @pinion:grin.hu@pinion:grin.hu (Banned from the community for previous abuse).22:32:34
@travis:t2l.ioTravisR banned @disruptivemember:beerfactory.org@disruptivemember:beerfactory.org (Banned from the community for previous abuse).23:06:54
25 Jun 2019
@travis:t2l.ioTravisR banned @svetlana_zolushka:matrix.allmende.io@svetlana_zolushka:matrix.allmende.io (Banned from the community for previous abuse).00:05:04
@abuse:matrix.orgAdministrator joined the room.20:17:15
@travis:t2l.ioTravisRchanged room power levels.20:17:17
@abuse:matrix.orgAdministrator changed their profile picture.20:44:35
@richvdh:matrix.orgpoorvdhchanged room power levels.22:04:10
4 Jul 2019
@jryans:matrix.orgJ. Ryan StinnettWhat updates the table on https://matrix.org/docs/spec/proposals these days? Something on CI? (It used to be on Jenkins, but that's gone of course...)12:37:57

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