| 27 Feb 2018 |
| *  @kitsune:matrix.org 's experience with J2SE tells that this thing won't fly smooth. And it will definitely fly very heavily - plenty of memory will be eaten. | 08:06:31 |
 sideboat | nepugia: sorry, i completely forgot the ui style things, currently i'm just focusing on making an app that doesn't lag | 08:06:32 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | Truly native things are what Kotlin/Native promises - bypassing JVM and making code that actually compiles for this or that platform. | 08:07:31 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | Sorry to disappoint. | 08:07:40 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | (And Kotlin/Native is still as young as a newborn could be...) | 08:08:10 |
| sideboat | kitsune: i'm quite interested in kotlin native as well, but i don't know how long will it take to get it easy to use | 08:08:52 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | With all that said, Kotlin is absolutely awesome. | 08:09:48 |
| sideboat | kitsune: i can understand java's reputation, but i don't think jvm hinders user experience, even python programs can be smooth | 08:10:14 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | And if I have a plugin for CLion/IDEA to talk Matrix, I'll be very interested in using it. | 08:10:22 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | sideboat: I'm 10 years in the business. Java's reputation is for a reason. | 08:10:57 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | And awesomeness of IDEA and, to some extent, Eclipse is despite of JVM's appetites, rather than because JVM gives something other platforms can't give. | 08:12:26 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | Although yes, Maven has done what decades of C++ being around couldn't. | 08:12:45 |
| * @kitsune:matrix.org finished with ranting around :) | 08:13:04 |
 hermitran | sideboat: i think the problem is that most projects where java was used didn't care much about user experience | 08:14:28 |
| hermitran | kitsune: I find many android apps are fast enough | 08:15:52 |
 @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:16:20 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | hermitran: Because Android is built around a Java VM? | 08:16:27 |
| @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:16:48 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | Similarly, Java Server Pages absolutely rock when it comes to enterprise web applications. | 08:17:12 |
| hermitran | kitsune: ah, probably more of "despite", but it shows what's possible | 08:17:24 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | That's not so much "despite", because Sun was very much into hardware business, and making its customers buy more memory was quite in its interests :) | 08:18:19 |
| @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:18:27 |
| hermitran | nepugia: i heard that jvm is probably the most advanced vm, i don't think Android can make a vm language native | 08:18:30 |
| @kitsune:matrix.org | And enterprise web applications are greedy beasts no matter in which language they are written. | 08:18:50 |
| @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:19:05 |
| hermitran invited  @unlmtd:matrix.org. | 08:21:23 |
| @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:22:44 |
| @lowee:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 08:24:02 |
 @max:kamax.io | sideboat: Your feedback would be appreciated on this proposal as a client dev! | 09:38:26 |
| @max:kamax.io | and btw, happy to see another JVM-based client! Feel free to look around at https://github.com/kamax-io for our own Java projects, including a client SDK. hopefully we can synergy together on some items | 09:39:46 |
