| 31 Mar 2023 |
|  mmquasarchanged room power levels. | 19:38:07 |
| 7 Apr 2023 |
|  @williams45:matrix.org joined the room. | 06:36:58 |
| 11 Apr 2023 |
| @williams45:matrix.org left the room. | 06:14:08 |
| 27 Apr 2023 |
|  @frank45:matrix.org left the room. | 14:42:11 |
| 29 Apr 2023 |
|  @suwako:hot-chilli.im joined the room. | 19:09:15 |
| 30 Apr 2023 |
|  imlostlmao joined the room. | 19:11:50 |
| 8 May 2023 |
|  @mercy45:matrix.org joined the room. | 21:26:28 |
| 9 May 2023 |
| @mercy45:matrix.org | Redacted or Malformed Event | 01:13:58 |
| mmquasar banned @mercy45:matrix.org. | 03:12:20 |
| 11 May 2023 |
| @suwako:hot-chilli.im removed their profile picture. | 12:53:34 |
| @suwako:hot-chilli.im left the room. | 13:30:17 |
| 17 Aug 2023 |
 twinkybot | I am close to finishing the book Switch (https://www.bookzilla.de/shop/article/13294783/chip_heath_dan_heath_switch.html). If you do not know it, I recommend reading it. I hope it will help me change things 🙂 | 15:12:37 |
| twinkybot | mmquasar: I think I already recommend it to you, but well once more won'T hurt 😄 | 15:13:12 |
| twinkybot | As I am not that up to date with online media, therefore sorry for mentioning old stuff. But I found a mini series from Dave Farley with various people, starting with Martin Fowler nad then Allan Holub, which I also liked quite a lot. Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TwoubGSXpc | 15:16:12 |
| twinkybot | * As I am not that up to date with online media, therefore sorry for mentioning old stuff. But I found a mini series from Dave Farley with various people, starting with Martin Fowler then Allan Holub, which I also liked quite a lot. Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TwoubGSXpc | 15:16:30 |
| 18 Aug 2023 |
| mmquasar | Thanks twinkybot for your post and remembering our shared challenges 😉 | 13:59:55 |
| mmquasar | It just took me a few minutes but now both versions DE and EN are right on my desk! | 14:00:27 |
| twinkybot | I took quite a lot out of the book. I am curious about what you learn if not already known 😉 | 14:01:21 |
| mmquasar | I only know, that I know nothing | 14:01:46 |
| mmquasar | I'm just half through of this one: https://www.lulu.com/shop/jack-harich/the-dueling-loops-of-the-political-powerplace-why-progressives-are-stymied-and-how-they-can-find-their-way-again/paperback/product-21810538.html?page=1&pageSize=4
It might sound a bit specific first, but there are is a good portion of insights in this book which I would consider universal. A great read due to the laser-sharp narrative of the author, too. | 14:03:23 |
| mmquasar | The book is to find out the issues in the system preventing the world from turning to sustainability and the resistance to this necessary change | 14:04:53 |
| 19 Aug 2023 |
| mmquasar | Not sure if somebody here already spent some thoughts on the question if or to which extent Contract-based-Testing could be a reasonable successor of classic (potentially slower) E2E testing in the context of Specification By Example? Does somebody has a clue on this? | 09:08:55 |
| 22 Aug 2023 |
| twinkybot | Why would it be one or the other? | 06:31:52 |
| twinkybot | I'd say basis is contract testing (described here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDfX44fZoMc, so that we talk about the same) and on top the business rule which are essential to describe business behaviour. | 06:33:30 |
| 24 Aug 2023 |
| mmquasar | One of our Teams approached me and they asked that. I had the chance to ask Bas about it and here's his answer
I have a bit mixed feelings on contract testing
I do not think it should replace e2e testing, thus if e2e testing can be having the same execution time and low maintenance effort, then I would prefer that.
However, I would also prefer unit tests over contract tests, simply because of their focus and execution speed.
The contract in contract test does suggest different teams own services (e.g. component teams) and if that argument would be used for contract test then I would respond that they have bigger problems to solve.
Now, that might all sound negative, but I don't intent it that. When the e2e test is slow in execution or awkward to maintain, then it might be appropriate to have contract tests with that to speed up the feedback or lower the maintainability
However, then I would also ask what makes the e2e test slow and why they are not that maintainable as it suggests there is something wrong too.
In other words, as long as it is not a way to isolate teams or avoid them talking to each other, then try it out... but do think about why and what you are trying to achieve.
| 07:50:20 |
| mmquasar | * One of our Teams approached me and they asked that. I had the chance to ask Bas about it and here's his answer:
I have a bit mixed feelings on contract testing
I do not think it should replace e2e testing, thus if e2e testing can be having the same execution time and low maintenance effort, then I would prefer that.
However, I would also prefer unit tests over contract tests, simply because of their focus and execution speed.
The contract in contract test does suggest different teams own services (e.g. component teams) and if that argument would be used for contract test then I would respond that they have bigger problems to solve.
Now, that might all sound negative, but I don't intent it that. When the e2e test is slow in execution or awkward to maintain, then it might be appropriate to have contract tests with that to speed up the feedback or lower the maintainability
However, then I would also ask what makes the e2e test slow and why they are not that maintainable as it suggests there is something wrong too.
In other words, as long as it is not a way to isolate teams or avoid them talking to each other, then try it out... but do think about why and what you are trying to achieve. | 07:50:29 |
| 3 Oct 2023 |
| mmquasar | In reply to @twinkybot:matrix.org
I am close to finishing the book Switch (https://www.bookzilla.de/shop/article/13294783/chip_heath_dan_heath_switch.html). If you do not know it, I recommend reading it. I hope it will help me change things 🙂 Thanks to your recommendation I started reading Switch. Let's talk about it once I'm through! Anybody else reading it or have read it, too? | 08:51:08 |
| mmquasar | Has somebody been on the LeSS Conference in Berlin last week? | 13:35:33 |
| 10 Oct 2023 |
| mmquasar | Not so many as it seems ... anyway, there was interesting talk from Mark Bregenzer and Frank Preiss about backlog predictability. Make sure to check it out! | 11:06:43 |
| mmquasar | In case you might floating around in Cologne in November, feel free to consider joining the Atlassian Automotive User Forum AAUF#9 bringing the focus back on collaboration, especially when it comes to digital whiteboarding. Several vendors will be there! https://ace.atlassian.com/events/details/atlassian-automotive-industry-user-group-presents-aauf-9-atlassian-automotive-user-forum/ | 11:08:24 |
