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Actually Autistic

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A space for neuroatypicals, especially autistic or autistic-adjacent people, that centers our needs. Allistics must understand their place here. Self-dx is valid! No bigots, no fascists (no TERFs, no SWERFs). Message @zuggtmoy:matrix.org for an invite!11 Servers

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26 Mar 2021
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
i do find it interesting that you consider szpd to be a form of autism. Thats what i self-dxed with before i ever considered autism
*

It's the very first diagnosis ever made for autism. If you have a look at the Wikipedia description for it even today, it's practically describing autistic traits. The only part it gets really wrong is that despite some outwardly appearing similarities (to NTs), autism/SZPD has nothing to do with schizophrenia or STPD. What's happening inwardly is entirely different.

This is the first big realisation that Asperger came to -- that autism and schizophrenic conditions are NOT linked.

So despite its name, schizoid personality disorder has nothing to do with schizophrenia, actually -- and technically it's not a personality disorder, but a neurological functioning difference. It's actually a diagnosis of autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

22:40:55
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * It's the very first diagnosis ever made for autism. If you have a look at the Wikipedia description for it even today, it's practically describing autistic traits. The only part it gets really wrong is that despite some outwardly appearing similarities (to NTs), autism/SZPD has nothing to do with schizophrenia or STPD. What's happening inwardly is entirely different. This is the first big realisation that Asperger came to -- that autism and schizophrenic conditions are NOT linked. So despite its name, schizoid personality disorder has nothing to do with schizophrenia, actually -- and technically it's not a personality disorder, but a neurological functioning difference. It's actually a(n outdated) diagnosis of autism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder22:41:43
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzyIt's a diagnosis that still exists, including in the most recent diagnostic manuals22:53:36
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzyand many definitely consider it to be part of the schizo spectrum22:54:46
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
and im gonna add a note on asperger too

Had Asperger been allowed to continue his research (had the war never happened), the world would have a completely different, an unpathologised and accepting understanding of autism today. He was way ahead of any autism researcher not just of his time, but also of generations later. He had an exceptional insight and technique -- akin to genius, truly.

In reality, I'm pretty certain that he himself carried autistic traits, and that that's why he was able to relate so well with his patients and had that uncanny insight and meticulous, well-studied methods for research.

The more he tried to help his patients and researched autism, the more he realised that this is a natural occurrance and that his patients are not ill, but simply naturally different, and that many of them have been subjected to severe abuse by their family and society.

He started developing inclusive, autism-accepting methods for helping his patients deal with society and heal from their traumas. A healthy, inclusive, safe social environment for them to heal and grow in, and to which they were not forcibly tied to.

His clinic was more a safe learning-and-play-ground than an actual clinic by the experience of it, but behind it lay very-very high quality, humanitarian-focused research. Research that was genuinely focused on helping his patients healthily develop and grow according to their needs, without personal bias.

22:55:30
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzywhat id assume (but maybe im biased bc thats mostly based on my own personal experience) is that SzPD is a result of autism, rather than a form of autism itself Like, the emotional detachment could be bc of alexithymia or trauma The socil detachment a result of exclusion or social burnout22:57:01
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzyehh that definitely sounds too positive abt asperger imo22:57:17
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzyBut afaik autism doesnt cause social anhedonia or emotional detachment itself, or at least theyre not common traits22:59:33
@ijyx:matrix.orgizzyill go to sleep now, but ill be back (and reply) tomorrow good night/ [insert daytime]23:00:32
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org It's actually what happened. There's plenty of evidence supporting it. Read NeuroTribes and do your own research into his life and work. Despite how he has been slandered in the media lately, Asperger was NOT a bad man. He was a good human being, not without faults, but trying his best to do the right thing during a very-very difficult time in history, and stuck on the wrong side. 23:00:40
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.orgYet it holds practically no relation in terms of origin and traits/characteristics with it... 🙄 The only reason it was invented in the first place because schizophrenia was the closest thing psychologists could put it to at the time, having no separate diagnosis for autism.23:04:36
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
and many definitely consider it to be part of the schizo spectrum
*

Yet it holds practically no relation in terms of origin and traits/characteristics with it... 🙄

The only reason it was invented in the first place because schizophrenia was the closest thing psychologists could put it to at the time, having no searate diagnosis for autism.

23:05:11
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.orgYep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins. To be perfectly honest, it is not a very useful diagnosis -- it's very vague and misleading. I don't quite understand why people still use it today.23:06:51
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org

Both of these are highly subjective and dependent on the person's environment. Autistics feel strongly emotionally attached and socially bonded in Autistic/neurodivergent circles. We have trouble relating to neurotypicals -- mostly because of the uninclusive, ableist culture NTs have.

If neurotypicals genuinely accepted autistic people for who we are and included us, we wouldn't feel this emotional distance.

23:10:57
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
what id assume (but maybe im biased bc thats mostly based on my own personal experience) is that SzPD is a result of autism, rather than a form of autism itself

Like, the emotional detachment could be bc of alexithymia or trauma

The socil detachment a result of exclusion or social burnout
* Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins.
23:15:25
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins. To be perfectly honest, it isn't a very useful diagnosis. I don't quite understand why people still use it today.23:16:34
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins. To be perfectly honest, it isn't a very useful diagnosis -- it's very vague and misleading. I don't quite understand why people still use it today.23:17:07
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Yep! This! You can view it this way, definitely. Because essentially it's a less developed understanding of autism. So it's describing autistic traits and behaviours, but with less knowledge about their origins. To be perfectly honest, it is not a very useful diagnosis -- it's very vague and misleading. I don't quite understand why people still use it today.23:17:46
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @ijyx:matrix.org
But afaik autism doesnt cause social anhedonia or emotional detachment itself, or at least theyre not common traits
*

Both of these are highly subjective and dependent on the person's environment. Autistics feel strongly emotionally attached and socially bonded in Autistic/neurodivergent circles. We have trouble relating to neurotypicals -- mostly because of the uninclusive, ableist culture NTs have.

If neurotypicals genuinely accepted autistic people for who we are and included us, we wouldn't feel this emotional distance.

23:18:59
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.orgTo be clear, this doesn't mean that you can't be autistic AND be schizophrenic or have STPD. It just means that the two are not directly linked. Although, come to think of it, my own research tells me that neurodiversity is a big, colourful spectrum, and that within it you could have autistic-schizophrenic traits -- where your neurotype is an inseparable mix of these two ND neurotypes, so that you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell them apart as distict in you. But this is just the result of my own observations about nature. Current psychology isn't quite up to this point yet (in fact far from it) in understanding neurodiversity and the human condition.23:27:52
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * To be clear, this doesn't mean that you can't be autistic AND be schizophrenic or have STPD. It just means that the two are not directly linked. Although, come to think of it, my own research tells me that neurodiversity is a big, colourful spectrum, and that within it you could have autistic-schizophrenic traits -- where your neurotype is an inseparable mix of these two ND neurotypes, so that you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell them apart as distict in you. But this is just the result of my own observations about nature.23:28:47
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * To be clear, this doesn't mean that you can't be autistic AND be schizophrenic or have STPD. It just means that the two are not directly linked. Although, come to think of it, my own research tells me that neurodiversity is a big, colourful spectrum, and that within it you could have autistic-schizophrenic traits -- where your neurotype is an inseparable mix of these two ND neurotypes, so that you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell them apart as distict in you. But this is just the result of my own observations about nature. Current psychology isn't quite up to this point yet (in fact far from) in understanding neurodiversity and the human condition.23:30:44
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * To be clear, this doesn't mean that you can't be autistic AND be schizophrenic or have STPD. It just means that the two are not directly linked. Although, come to think of it, my own research tells me that neurodiversity is a big, colourful spectrum, and that within it you could have autistic-schizophrenic traits -- where your neurotype is an inseparable mix of these two ND neurotypes, so that you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell them apart as distict in you. But this is just the result of my own observations about nature. Current psychology isn't quite up to this point yet (in fact far from it) in understanding neurodiversity and the human condition.23:30:58
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.orgOh yes! Definitely! Once you get over your stage fright (which not everyone can do, by the way), public monologuing is so much easier than holding a dialogue between people of different neurotypes -- not to mention a conversation with multiple people! This is why autistic people do great in the performing arts, too. What we have a much bigger challenge with is in interactively engaging our audience -- something that NTs often like to do. We are usually more academic and straightforward in our public speaking/performing approach. On the side note: I've even known of two autistic politicians!! Now that's a tall order -- so much stress...! :O23:39:44
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @jez:petrichor.me
I liked this article: I identified with his experience that, once you've done it once or twice, public speaking is actually easier than having a conversation with the same strangers.
*

Oh yes! Definitely! Once you get over your stage fright (which not everyone can do, by the way), public monologuing is so much easier than holding a dialogue between people of different neurotypes -- not to mention a conversation with multiple people!

This is why autistic people do great in the performing arts, too.

What we have a much bigger challenge with is in interactively engaging our audience -- something that NTs often like to do. We are usually more academic and straightforward in our public speaking approach.

On the side note: I've even known of two autistic politicians!! Now that's a tall order -- so much stress...! :O

23:41:02
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Oh yes! Definitely! Once you get over your stage fright (which not everyone can do, by the way), public monologuing is so much easier than holding a dialogue between people of different neurotypes -- not to mention a conversation with multiple people! This is why autistic people do great in the performing arts, too. What we have a much bigger challenge with is in interactively engaging our audience -- something that NTs often like to do. We are usually more academic and straightforward in our public speaking/performing approach. On the side note: I've even known of two autistic politicians!! Now that's a tall order -- so much stress...! :O23:42:19
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.orgIzzy, you have to bear in mind that psychology is still a new field of science. It still needs to do a lot of growing and maturing to develop into a truly reliable and comprehensive, accurate scientific field. Only 60 years ago many psychologists were still secretly convinced that mental illnesses were caused by gazing at the moon for too long -- and I'm not even kidding! Hence the ableist term "lunatic" ("moonstruck"). (In fact the word "lunatic" was only removed from US federal laws in 2012!) So feel free to look at what's written in psychology with a scrutinous eye, and to not take it as clear and undeniable fact -- because it really isn't. It's still a very vague (and ableist) attempt at describing the complexities of the human condition.23:57:20
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org
In reply to @kenoiyan:matrix.org

Yet it holds practically no relation in terms of origin and traits/characteristics with it... 🙄

The only reason it was invented in the first place because schizophrenia was the closest thing psychologists could put it to at the time, having no searate diagnosis for autism.

*

Izzy, you have to bear in mind that psychology is still a new field of science. It still needs to do a lot of growing to develop into a truly reliable and comprehensive, accurate scientific field.

Only 60 years ago many psychologists were still secretly convinced that mental illnesses were caused by gazing at the moon for too long -- and I'm not even kidding! Hence the ableist term "lunatic" ("moonstruck").

(In fact the word "lunatic" was only removed from US federal laws in 2012!)

So feel free to look at what's written in psychology with a scrutinous eye, and not take it as clear and undeniable fact -- because it really isn't. It's still a very vague attempt at describing the complexities of the human condition.

23:58:27
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Izzy, you have to bear in mind that psychology is still a new field of science. It still needs to do a lot of growing to develop into a truly reliable and comprehensive, accurate scientific field. Only 60 years ago many psychologists were still secretly convinced that mental illnesses were caused by gazing at the moon for too long -- and I'm not even kidding! Hence the ableist term "lunatic" ("moonstruck"). (In fact the word "lunatic" was only removed from US federal laws in 2012!) So feel free to look at what's written in psychology with a scrutinous eye, and to not take it as clear and undeniable fact -- because it really isn't. It's still a very vague (and ableist) attempt at describing the complexities of the human condition.23:59:06
27 Mar 2021
@kenoiyan:matrix.org@kenoiyan:matrix.org * Izzy, you have to bear in mind that psychology is still a new field of science. It still needs to do a lot of growing and maturing to develop into a truly reliable and comprehensive, accurate scientific field. Only 60 years ago many psychologists were still secretly convinced that mental illnesses were caused by gazing at the moon for too long -- and I'm not even kidding! Hence the ableist term "lunatic" ("moonstruck"). (In fact the word "lunatic" was only removed from US federal laws in 2012!) So feel free to look at what's written in psychology with a scrutinous eye, and to not take it as clear and undeniable fact -- because it really isn't. It's still a very vague (and ableist) attempt at describing the complexities of the human condition.00:01:43

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