| 1 Feb 2023 |
 trosel#0574 | i would say it gives context but yeah | 19:37:42 |
 sen-mik#1055 | Japanese is an interesting case for that matter, it operates with postpositional markers/particles, which you can consider being cases that are separated from the word. But I'm not a professional linguist and it's just my amateurish view on Japanese đ | 20:43:04 |
| trosel#0574 | i guess my idea is just to make them all post positions.
if we look at the case of lidepla and my example text, everything there is native lidepla. the only difference is that i made the nom and acc markers mandatory | 20:52:57 |
| trosel#0574 | the rhythm of the post positions sounds quite nice though. reminds me of greek
da kitĂĄba de mĂ© den Ănfo de sekrĂ©t kontĂ©ni
kitĂĄba-ga mĂ©-ney Ănfo-wo sekrĂ©t-ney kontĂ©ni
| 20:55:18 |
| trosel#0574 | oops i think adjectives would still go first probably.
mĂ©-ney kitĂĄba-ga sekrĂ©t-ney Ănfo-wo kontĂ©ni
| 20:58:12 |
| sen-mik#1055 | yeap, just lke Japanese | 21:05:33 |
| sen-mik#1055 | This is a very nice article on the topic of Japanese sentence structure: https://8020japanese.com/japanese-sentence-structure/ | 21:07:35 |
 custone | If you move in this direction I would suggest exploring SOV order and rel-NP order, both of which would change Lidepla significantly, but might turn out spiffy! | 21:14:04 |
| trosel#0574 | 
Download En-vs-Jp-structure.png | 21:24:15 |
| trosel#0574 | this image rocks! | 21:24:16 |
| trosel#0574 | excellent suggestion! I am preferring SOV order generally these days, but what is rel-NP? | 21:27:24 |
| custone | Relative clauses before the noun phrases that they modify. | 21:30:51 |
| 2 Feb 2023 |
 erjish | As far as I've understood, languages oscillates or iterates (?) between agglutinating and isolating, so that what is pre-/post-/adpositions (maybe?) and pronouns (at least this part) in one stage, becomes affixes in another stage.
Very cool theory. Because you can sort of imagine traces of it in some forms. And since I've learned about grammatical 'details' that Swedish has lost, we have hade the wonder, hm, been wondering how that works, if it just becomes simpler and simpler over time (which is what people sort of say, sometimes).
In the beginning, there was Ikhtuil. đ
(Now I haven't read it all and you have probably already expressed this more elegantly, with some GIF and/or Dune reference. đ ) | 01:59:43 |
 ChristianSi | i'm not convinced of this oscillation theory. | 08:19:48 |
 ellipsis | why not? It makes decent sense historically | 13:34:34 |
| ChristianSi | well, i'm not an expert, but i wonder how many cases there are where this is indeed well-documented. | 13:46:43 |
| trosel#0574 | well we know that romance prepositions came from cases, right? | 17:44:21 |
| trosel#0574 | japanese kept everything as postpositions | 17:44:41 |
| sen-mik#1055 | Do we know that? I don't see how one would use cases only without any prepositions | 18:49:57 |
| trosel#0574 | look at japanese and korean for example | 19:03:32 |
| trosel#0574 | or Finnish for that matter | 19:03:42 |
| trosel#0574 | Hungarian too | 19:03:51 |
| ChristianSi | though i guess in the case of japanese and korean, one might just as well say that they use postpositions rather than cases? | 19:35:07 |
| trosel#0574 | that is the point i've been making for 3 days now | 19:45:02 |
| trosel#0574 | I could do the same thing with lugamun actually. All your case markers and prepositions are.. pre. | 19:47:25 |
| sen-mik#1055 | sorry, I meant in European languages, they use both | 20:05:26 |
| trosel#0574 | yes but almost all european languages were all cases at one point and over time grew to have more and more prepositions and less cases.
we can see this in studying the âprotoâ languages | 20:12:22 |
| ChristianSi | yeah, indeed i'm inclined to call i and o "optional prepositions" rather than "optional case markers". in any case, ultimately they might be described together with the propositions. | 20:20:00 |
| trosel#0574 | because "a" is a dative case marker, technically | 20:20:33 |
|  skalyan91 joined the room. | 20:37:34 |
