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Lingwa de Planeta (Lidepla)

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Auxiliary Language http://www.lingwadeplaneta.info/ https://lidepla-lang.github.io/dictionary/2 Servers

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1 Feb 2023
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 i would say it gives context but yeah 19:37:42
@_discord_677652854835642378:t2bot.iosen-mik#1055 Japanese is an interesting case for that matter, it operates with postpositional markers/particles, which you can consider being cases that are separated from the word. But I'm not a professional linguist and it's just my amateurish view on Japanese 😁 20:43:04
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 i guess my idea is just to make them all post positions.

if we look at the case of lidepla and my example text, everything there is native lidepla. the only difference is that i made the nom and acc markers mandatory
20:52:57
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 the rhythm of the post positions sounds quite nice though. reminds me of greek

da kitába de mé  den ínfo de sekrét  konténi

kitába-ga mé-ney ínfo-wo  sekrét-ney konténi
20:55:18
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 oops i think adjectives would still go first probably.

mé-ney kitába-ga sekrét-ney ínfo-wo  konténi
20:58:12
@_discord_677652854835642378:t2bot.iosen-mik#1055 yeap, just lke Japanese 21:05:33
@_discord_677652854835642378:t2bot.iosen-mik#1055 This is a very nice article on the topic of Japanese sentence structure: https://8020japanese.com/japanese-sentence-structure/ 21:07:35
@_discord_432160901139791884:t2bot.iocustone If you move in this direction I would suggest exploring SOV order and rel-NP order, both of which would change Lidepla significantly, but might turn out spiffy! 21:14:04
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574En-vs-Jp-structure.png
Download En-vs-Jp-structure.png
21:24:15
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 this image rocks! 21:24:16
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 excellent suggestion! I am preferring SOV order generally these days, but what is rel-NP? 21:27:24
@_discord_432160901139791884:t2bot.iocustone Relative clauses before the noun phrases that they modify. 21:30:51
2 Feb 2023
@_discord_923723525632708608:t2bot.ioerjish As far as I've understood, languages oscillates or iterates (?) between agglutinating and isolating, so that what is pre-/post-/adpositions (maybe?) and pronouns (at least this part) in one stage, becomes affixes in another stage.

Very cool theory. Because you can sort of imagine traces of it in some forms. And since I've learned about grammatical 'details' that Swedish has lost, we have hade the wonder, hm, been wondering how that works, if it just becomes simpler and simpler over time (which is what people sort of say, sometimes).

In the beginning, there was Ikhtuil. 😉

(Now I haven't read it all and you have probably already expressed this more elegantly, with some GIF and/or Dune reference. 😉 )
01:59:43
@_discord_826061108364312626:t2bot.ioChristianSi i'm not convinced of this oscillation theory. 08:19:48
@_discord_241724001284521984:t2bot.ioellipsis why not? It makes decent sense historically 13:34:34
@_discord_826061108364312626:t2bot.ioChristianSi well, i'm not an expert, but i wonder how many cases there are where this is indeed well-documented. 13:46:43
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 well we know that romance prepositions came from cases, right? 17:44:21
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 japanese kept everything as postpositions 17:44:41
@_discord_677652854835642378:t2bot.iosen-mik#1055 Do we know that? I don't see how one would use cases only without any prepositions 18:49:57
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 look at japanese and korean for example 19:03:32
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 or Finnish for that matter 19:03:42
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 Hungarian too 19:03:51
@_discord_826061108364312626:t2bot.ioChristianSi though i guess in the case of japanese and korean, one might just as well say that they use postpositions rather than cases? 19:35:07
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 that is the point i've been making for 3 days now 19:45:02
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 I could do the same thing with lugamun actually. All your case markers and prepositions are.. pre. 19:47:25
@_discord_677652854835642378:t2bot.iosen-mik#1055 sorry, I meant in European languages, they use both 20:05:26
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 yes but almost all european languages were all cases at one point and over time grew to have more and more prepositions and less cases.

we can see this in studying the “proto” languages
20:12:22
@_discord_826061108364312626:t2bot.ioChristianSi yeah, indeed i'm inclined to call i and o "optional prepositions" rather than "optional case markers". in any case, ultimately they might be described together with the propositions. 20:20:00
@_discord_736254306134523965:t2bot.iotrosel#0574 because "a" is a dative case marker, technically 20:20:33
@_discord_350846589776166924:t2bot.ioskalyan91 joined the room.20:37:34

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